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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

LemonPeonies · 04/11/2023 16:12

I Don't think NHS should fund IVF for anyone either, not sure I agree with it at all tbh.

Mumeries · 04/11/2023 16:23

I think disabled autistic women who struggle to make friendships or have relationships should be entitled to free fertility treatment/sperm banks

thesmartwife · 04/11/2023 16:27

Theoretically the NHS provides fertility treatment for people with fertility problems, i.e. they are doing all the right things to have a baby but aren't falling pregnant and they have either some known or unexplained fertility issue. Single women or lesbian couples are not having sex with men and may not actually have fertility issues. I suppose if lesbian couples get treatment then there is no reason why single women shouldn't be treated also, provided donor sperm can be obtained.

There are ethical considerations and already gay men want to have the option of surrogacy on the NHS. Surrogacy is in almost all cases not ethical or acceptable in anyway. So widening access to "fertility treatment" via the NHS is highly fraught https://www.thepinknews.com/2020/05/04/scotland-gay-couple-surrogacy-nhs-ross-chris-muller-edinburgh/

Scotland’s first gay couple to have a baby via NHS surrogacy want others to know there is ‘an open door’

The first gay couple in Scotland to have a baby through an NHS surrogate want others to know that there is "an open door" for others.

https://www.thepinknews.com/2020/05/04/scotland-gay-couple-surrogacy-nhs-ross-chris-muller-edinburgh

TempestTost · 04/11/2023 17:50

Simonjt · 04/11/2023 06:41

Where we live fertility treatment has been funded for gay women since 2005 and single women since 2016. Some people still choose to go elsewhere and pay (where it is cheaper than paying here) to reduce wait times. It should be funded or not, you either think women should be able to access funded IVF or they shouldn’t, we wouldn’t treat women of different religions or ethnicities differently, so we shouldn’t treat or not treat women according to their sexuality.

I think the OP's question is whether people who are totally fertile should be funded if they don't want to have potentially procreative sex.

The usual bar is that they will fund treatments if there are medical issues. Not having sex is not a medical issue, nor is not having sex with an opposite sex person. The reason is irrelevant.

TempestTost · 04/11/2023 17:53

Mumeries · 04/11/2023 16:23

I think disabled autistic women who struggle to make friendships or have relationships should be entitled to free fertility treatment/sperm banks

Maybe we could also fund surrogates for autistic and unattractive men who struggle to connect with women?

Euridicefortuna · 04/11/2023 18:46

Moreempatheticmyarse · 03/11/2023 22:31

They wouldn't know of any issues as they haven't had sex with a man so have never tried to conceive naturally.

That's a pretty large assumption. I knew I would have issues since I was about 16. My friend with endo knew she would have issues since she was mid 20s. Another friend knows she cant have children due to childhood cancer. Having sex with a man isn't a prerequisite to knowing you have a condition that causes fertility issues.

I am speaking specifically about my friends, who have 2 beautiful girls via IVF.They have no fertility issues;the only issue they had was that sperm is needed from a man to create a child.No large assumptions being made here:they were missing a vital ingredient which the NHS provided. Do you know my friends better than I do,fair enough if you do........

Moreempatheticmyarse · 04/11/2023 18:57

Euridicefortuna · 04/11/2023 18:46

I am speaking specifically about my friends, who have 2 beautiful girls via IVF.They have no fertility issues;the only issue they had was that sperm is needed from a man to create a child.No large assumptions being made here:they were missing a vital ingredient which the NHS provided. Do you know my friends better than I do,fair enough if you do........

I don't know your friends better than you do. And maybe they are upfront about their fertility. But I also know plenty of people who have fertility issues who choose not to disclose their medical details to all and sundry, sometimes not even their close friends and family, as is their right.

Besides which - the point I was responding to was you saying they couldn't know whether they had fertility issues or not because they hadn't had sex with a man. Which is ridiculous as that is clearly not medically necessary to know a fair number of fertility issues.

Vistada · 04/11/2023 19:30

Mumeries · 04/11/2023 16:23

I think disabled autistic women who struggle to make friendships or have relationships should be entitled to free fertility treatment/sperm banks

Having a child is not a right. No one is owed the opportunity. Thats just a fact.

It's ludicrous that the NHS funds this at all.

Mumeries · 04/11/2023 22:28

TempestTost · 04/11/2023 17:53

Maybe we could also fund surrogates for autistic and unattractive men who struggle to connect with women?

You put emphasis on unattractive

TempestTost · 04/11/2023 22:30

Mumeries · 04/11/2023 22:28

You put emphasis on unattractive

Not sure what your point is.

Euridicefortuna · 05/11/2023 17:14

Moreempatheticmyarse · 04/11/2023 18:57

I don't know your friends better than you do. And maybe they are upfront about their fertility. But I also know plenty of people who have fertility issues who choose not to disclose their medical details to all and sundry, sometimes not even their close friends and family, as is their right.

Besides which - the point I was responding to was you saying they couldn't know whether they had fertility issues or not because they hadn't had sex with a man. Which is ridiculous as that is clearly not medically necessary to know a fair number of fertility issues.

You are hard work aren't you.Why are you arguing with me about my friends,they are very upfront with their issues with me as I am with them.I will reiterate, they were missing sperm which the NHS provided. I went to one of her appointments when her partner couldn't make it,everything was disclosed there;her issue was no sperm.They have another round of IVF left,she is very fertile and got pregnant with her first round of IVF and luckily the second. Why can't you understand that sometimes it is just that the sperm is missing and council's work by a case by case basis;there doesn't have to be anything wrong for the NHS to help you.It is upto the individual council.One if the questions that she was asked was if she had trouble conceiving, her response, I don't know I have not had sex with a man! I will let her know that she didn't need to have sex with a man to know if she had any issues.

Moreempatheticmyarse · 05/11/2023 17:35

Euridicefortuna · 05/11/2023 17:14

You are hard work aren't you.Why are you arguing with me about my friends,they are very upfront with their issues with me as I am with them.I will reiterate, they were missing sperm which the NHS provided. I went to one of her appointments when her partner couldn't make it,everything was disclosed there;her issue was no sperm.They have another round of IVF left,she is very fertile and got pregnant with her first round of IVF and luckily the second. Why can't you understand that sometimes it is just that the sperm is missing and council's work by a case by case basis;there doesn't have to be anything wrong for the NHS to help you.It is upto the individual council.One if the questions that she was asked was if she had trouble conceiving, her response, I don't know I have not had sex with a man! I will let her know that she didn't need to have sex with a man to know if she had any issues.

Well do be sure to let the NHS know that they no longer need a range of medical knowledge to know if someone's fertile or not just a man's penis

Yes Emma, we've removed your ovaries but you might still be fertile we don't know until you've had sex with a man

Once again, I wasnt saying that your friends had fertility issues. I was challenging your statement that people couldn't know if they had fertility issues until they had sex with a man. I provided several examples where this is in fact not the case. It is one of the ways people find out they infertile, not the one and only way.

sunnydayhereandnow · 05/11/2023 17:50

TempestTost · 04/11/2023 17:50

I think the OP's question is whether people who are totally fertile should be funded if they don't want to have potentially procreative sex.

The usual bar is that they will fund treatments if there are medical issues. Not having sex is not a medical issue, nor is not having sex with an opposite sex person. The reason is irrelevant.

Think about what you're saying. People are not in relationships for any number of reasons, and they can't just decide suddenly to be in one. Suggesting that a woman should have sex outside a relationship, with a man she is probably not attracted to just in order to get pregnant (and let's assume that for most people that would have to happen a LOT of times) is really problematic. Both for the two people involved in terms of having to put themselves through this, and also because the male partner would have parental rights.

In the country I live in, fertility treatment including IVF is available and funded for any woman who needs it to get pregnant, no matter what her relationship status (you pay for donor sperm if needed, and you co-pay for medication; IVF is only available after other treatments like multiple IUIs have failed).

I see this as a feminist issue. Having spent ten years trying to find a life partner and not succeeding, I was able to have a child on my own during my fertile years, safely, without having to have risky sex with someone I am not interested in (and I was also not tempted to pursue unsuitable relationships just because the biological clock was ticking). Yes, my kid is growing up without a father in our home. But he has many good male role models among our close friends, and also has several friends with a similar family setup. Perhaps it's not ideal, but if this forum is anything to go by there are plenty of kids with a far less positive family situation.

Jk987 · 05/11/2023 19:57

Mumeries · 04/11/2023 16:23

I think disabled autistic women who struggle to make friendships or have relationships should be entitled to free fertility treatment/sperm banks

Great start for the child. They'll have to deal with no father while Mum has no friends and can't forge relationships. So they'll be no one else who loves and cares for the child no support network whatsoever. Great.

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