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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Archaic societal norms that need to change

290 replies

Autiebibliophile · 03/11/2023 05:34

For me it's the 6 week holidays. It worked well in a time where the majority of families were one income families. Where village communities were much more present. Grandparents typically lived close by and could help with childcare. When we had typical seasons before global warming kicked in.

I grew up in the eighties, summers were playing out all day. If my mum needed to go somewhere I went to my grandparents or a friends house. It was simple. Now it's just 6 weeks of childcare hell. Spending a fortune on childcare, expensive holidays, activities. It costs a fortune and I'm not convinced children get much out of the break anymore.

I think it needs cutting down to three weeks, And give parents two weeks they can use at their choosing (at certain time periods in the year)

What societal norms do you think are outdated?

OP posts:
New22iht · 03/11/2023 06:53

I’ve always found the idea of your father giving you away at your wedding to be completely archaic. This tradition originated from when women were seen as property to be given from father to husband. I know no one sees it that way anymore, and it’s mostly just a sweet way of fathers showing support on their daughters wedding day and wanting to be involved. I just feel uncomfortable with where it originates from and wonder why more people don’t question this.

on the same theme, the women taking the man’s last name upon marriage - I personally wish more people questioned this and I find this archaic.

StepAwayFromGoogling · 03/11/2023 06:54

New22iht · 03/11/2023 06:53

I’ve always found the idea of your father giving you away at your wedding to be completely archaic. This tradition originated from when women were seen as property to be given from father to husband. I know no one sees it that way anymore, and it’s mostly just a sweet way of fathers showing support on their daughters wedding day and wanting to be involved. I just feel uncomfortable with where it originates from and wonder why more people don’t question this.

on the same theme, the women taking the man’s last name upon marriage - I personally wish more people questioned this and I find this archaic.

Agree!

TheCurtainQueen · 03/11/2023 06:54

Women taking their husbands names when they get married. It reinforces the view that the woman is subservient.

Sunday opening hours.

Holidayhell22 · 03/11/2023 06:55

Stop adding interest into student loans. In fact stop student loans. It’s another way of punishing the less well off. Those with wealthy parents often don’t need a loan.
Nationalise all utilities and transport. The billions saved in paying out dividends would pay for university students.
Have a serious shake up of the NHS. Stop being a free for all. All patients to be given firm but fair advice on how their lifestyle must change before the NHS spends ££££ on them. This is a waste of resources. Lifestyle must change and here is what you must do, no change no free operations, drugs etc. stop making people dependant on the state.

StepAwayFromGoogling · 03/11/2023 06:58

sollenwir · 03/11/2023 06:52

Ms seems to be very common these days tbh. Use what you like. I have another title entirely so use that.

I suppose my issue is that it's the default. Why on earth does anyone still do it?
Another one is when we get any work done on the house. Even if I have contacted, agreed the work, overseen the work and asked for the bill to be sent to me it comes as "Mr and Mrs Step". Maddening.

curtaintwitchersannonymous · 03/11/2023 06:59

Autiebibliophile · 03/11/2023 05:34

For me it's the 6 week holidays. It worked well in a time where the majority of families were one income families. Where village communities were much more present. Grandparents typically lived close by and could help with childcare. When we had typical seasons before global warming kicked in.

I grew up in the eighties, summers were playing out all day. If my mum needed to go somewhere I went to my grandparents or a friends house. It was simple. Now it's just 6 weeks of childcare hell. Spending a fortune on childcare, expensive holidays, activities. It costs a fortune and I'm not convinced children get much out of the break anymore.

I think it needs cutting down to three weeks, And give parents two weeks they can use at their choosing (at certain time periods in the year)

What societal norms do you think are outdated?

It needs to expand not shrink. Its for farming communities, so children are available to help on the farms. OI have taught in farming communities, where all secondary age children are on the farms by 2pm throughout June and July, and so school starts at 7.30 as the children will leave, whether school is finished or not.

We already have the shortest summer holidays in europe. And the longest school days. In many countries all children are home by lunchtime every day.

It would make sense to add more time to the Christmas holiday though. Schools need to save money, and a week of heating the premises would make a difference

LameBorzoi · 03/11/2023 06:59

@Chickenkeev Totally agree. My kids are tired and burnt out by the end of the school year. We should be aiming to work less, not more!

curtaintwitchersannonymous · 03/11/2023 07:03

ChekhovsMum · 03/11/2023 05:43

Women working full time or nearly full time but still doing everything to do with their children which involves thinking ahead and remembering, eg school comms, buying new clothing and shoes, vaccinations, buying gifts and cards for friends’ birthday parties, organising everything for and whatsapping thank you messages after their own kids’ birthday parties, haircuts, meal planning for multiple preferences, homework organisation, play dates, extracurricular, PE kit washing and replacing lost items, etc. etc.

It amounts to days (even weeks) of unpaid labour a year and it makes people utterly miserable.

As a single mum working full time I never understood what all this "wife work" stuff was - I never noticed it. I just thought of it as life. I think people make a big deal of it and it is not necessary. It isn't "hours of unpaid labour" it is just being.

Don't do it if you don't want to

Cosyblankets · 03/11/2023 07:04

StepAwayFromGoogling · 03/11/2023 06:43

Mine is Miss and Mrs. When men just get Mr. WTF can't we just have Ms? It's the 21st centry, FFS, my marital status is nothing to do with anything. I'm 47 years old and my bank card still says Miss!!!!

You can get in touch with your bank and tell them how you want to be addressed.
Mine says Mrs.

sollenwir · 03/11/2023 07:05

TheCurtainQueen · 03/11/2023 06:54

Women taking their husbands names when they get married. It reinforces the view that the woman is subservient.

Sunday opening hours.

In my case I was happy to replace my often misspelled surname (very similar to a more common surname) with a much simpler one (spelled the most common way). 😉

curtaintwitchersannonymous · 03/11/2023 07:06

Autiebibliophile · 03/11/2023 06:00

Re pricing how is that different to now? Lots of stressful jobs - police, social work etc no one else gets 6 consecutive weeks to recharge.

They dont ll have holidays at the same time though, so that is what makes a difference to pricing. Teachers work a lot longer hours in term time, and also work in the holidays too, but much less hours

Skyblue92 · 03/11/2023 07:06

As @Girasoli and @curtaintwitchersannonymous have said, we already have one of the shortest summer holidays in Europe, and you and others want to make it even shorter? Even schools in Europe still have half terms etc but they seem to clearly manage with the length of holidays. It’s only the UK that can’t manage without access to their free childcare as that’s clearly what people see education as now.

Cosyblankets · 03/11/2023 07:07

boredfuckinsenseless · 03/11/2023 06:46

I'd switch the notion of home ownership being the norm. A mass council housing scheme matching the 50s. including criteria such as regular employment, so it's not just 'underclass' who qualify. Only one wage to be accepted for mortgages. House prices would decrease. In turn, families would have a choice to put children in childcare or not. It doesn't necessarily mean sprawling estates like the much maligned 60s estates but lots of smaller well planned estates appealing to societal mix of professional, non skilled, skilled, singles, families and older people.

How much do you think tax would have to be to pay for this?
Who would maintain it? Windows? Boiler? Electrics? Roofing?
Where would this money come from?

Autiebibliophile · 03/11/2023 07:07

Doingmybest12 · 03/11/2023 06:38

That childcare and caring for the elderly has such low status and pay.

Definitely this. It is shocking how little regard carers get.

OP posts:
Autiebibliophile · 03/11/2023 07:08

minisoksmakehardwork · 03/11/2023 06:45

@Autiebibliophile - I read it that school staff who were parents would be able to take 2 weeks off at any time to facilitate family life.

Ahh that makes sense.

OP posts:
SharonEllis · 03/11/2023 07:09

Autiebibliophile · 03/11/2023 06:00

Re pricing how is that different to now? Lots of stressful jobs - police, social work etc no one else gets 6 consecutive weeks to recharge.

Because unlike police & social workers, teachers cant take time off during term time. Few other jobs have such a long stretch where they cant take time off. They dont get the whole 6 weeks anyway - always working a bit at the beginning and end and some will be taking school trips in the holidays. A friend of mine has worked in senior roles in major public organisations. Left several years ago to take up teaching (taking a massive pay cut) and at the time said it was easily the hardest thing he had ever done.

Autiebibliophile · 03/11/2023 07:09

PuppyMonkey · 03/11/2023 06:50

People smothering perfectly nice food with gravy, thus making everything soggy and tasting of gravy. Make it stop.

YABVU gravy is wonderful

OP posts:
SharonEllis · 03/11/2023 07:10

Onethingatatime23 · 03/11/2023 06:17

Also a lot of the school curriculum is still based around what monks taught in the first schools in medieval times. I'd shake it all up and rewrite it entirely.

Like what??!!

curtaintwitchersannonymous · 03/11/2023 07:10

Doingmybest12 · 03/11/2023 06:05

I think the way schools work and the exam system is archaic. Having 30 plus children sitting in a classroom being quiet and compliant ,expected to just absorb information in a uniform way does not fit with the way we rear children generally. Many schools are enormous now. Why are we cramming children with random, often useless information for them to regurgitate when information is now at the finger tips of everyone and we need skills to research, analyse and for critical thinking. Which we could test by students having access to information under exam conditions not asking them to remember all this stuff that they'll later forget. I am sure I'm being simplistic but schools are still run along victorian lines.

you cant get anything but the lowest grades by simply regurgitating facts. Exam questions are often packed with information that students are required to analyse and evaluate. These skills are taught in lessons

I think your conception of what is happening in schools in antiquated, rather than schools themselves

LlynTegid · 03/11/2023 07:10

First past the post voting in elections.
Putting the clocks back in winter.

I'd keep the length of summer holidays.

Comedycook · 03/11/2023 07:11

I agree with you about school holidays. A month would be a good amount of time to have off. Even my kids get fed up towards the end of it and just want to go back. Kids don't really play out anymore so they get bored and parents have to find ways to keep them amused which is expensive.

I also think working hours need an overhaul. I reckon most full time jobs could have an hour shaved off the end of the day and no one would notice. Even pre kids, I absolutely hated the 9-5...there was literally no time to do anything. Oh and it isn't even 9-5 anymore, it's 9-5.30 or 8.30-5.30. mostly unnecessary and just a way for employers to prove how lucky you are to be employed.

garlictwist · 03/11/2023 07:11

You talk of the 80s like it was a mythical time very different to today. That's not my experience. Both my parents worked (as was the case for lost families I knew) so we had a combination of holiday camps and teenage babysitters to look after us.

I agree that the six weeks is too long and four would be better but just because I think kids forget too much over the summer and four is already a huge break.

curtaintwitchersannonymous · 03/11/2023 07:13

sollenwir · 03/11/2023 06:11

@Doingmybest12 I agree about exams - it's almost just a memory competition in many cases. I feel like ongoing assessment can work much better, assessing individual units at different times and also looking at general trends to see if a student's knowledge/ability/skill in the overall subject area is developing as the year progresses.

This is just so untrue - you cant get beyond the lowest grades just memorising facts

curtaintwitchersannonymous · 03/11/2023 07:15

Doingmybest12 · 03/11/2023 06:12

The way parliament is run, all the boo ha ha. All the need to pledge allegiance to the monarchy . I hoped when Westminster needed work not long ago they would abandon it and create a new setting where it could be less adversarial.

If you have ever been in and watched parliament in action, you will know that almost all the hard work is done in committees cooperatively and not adversarial at all

travelnorth · 03/11/2023 07:17

No way. This is your personal situation and you need to deal with it. The school is not for childcare. The majority would not agree with this.