Archaic societal norms that need to change

[Autiebibliophile]

For me it's the 6 week holidays. It worked well in a time where the majority of families were one income families. Where village communities were much more present. Grandparents typically lived close by and could help with childcare. When we had typical seasons before global warming kicked in.

I grew up in the eighties, summers were playing out all day. If my mum needed to go somewhere I went to my grandparents or a friends house. It was simple. Now it's just 6 weeks of childcare hell. Spending a fortune on childcare, expensive holidays, activities. It costs a fortune and I'm not convinced children get much out of the break anymore.

I think it needs cutting down to three weeks, And give parents two weeks they can use at their choosing (at certain time periods in the year)

What societal norms do you think are outdated?

Same with Christmas. It used to be Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, and maybe a visit to Father Christmas at the local shopping centre.

Now people tie themselves in knots with ridiculous and unnecessary things like 1st December boxes, North Pole breakfasts, elf on the shelf and Christmas Eve boxes on top (and then moan about the workload/mental load of it all) but it isn't bloody mandatory.

I think this is a very good point, teaching needs to change, and also be taught 'life skills' like how to budget and cook basic meals and such like, and yes I am aware I am one of those saying change needs to happen but not saying what that change looks like

I'd like secondary schools to adopt a more comfortable uniform. Say a polo shirt and joggers or just wear your own bottoms and have a school fleece or t shirt. My kids have to effectively wear suits and ties every day. The argument that it set them up for the world of work is archaic. A lot of jobs are now wfh and if people do go into the office, they are usually dressed casually.

The assumption that all women are mothers/can be mothers or want to be mothers.

As a previous poster said, you're being naive. But you're also feigning helplessness, and scapegoating schools. Teachers don't make the kinds of political decisions that have resulted in there being woefully diminished provision in the education system for SEN children. Politicians do that. Take it up with them, stand up for your child's rights.

(But you won't, you'll just blame teachers instead. You represent so much of what stinks about parents' attitudes to teaching staff. And I'm not a teacher btw - I've just seen up close the brutal way they've been steadily shafted for years by governments, SLTs and feckless parents 🙄)

School isn't childcare its education education and breaks from education isn't archaic it is beneficial for children and learning.

Fuck yeah.

It's particularly ridiculous that school uniforms have if anything got more formal as workwear has gone the opposite way. There's been a definite move towards more blazers in the last couple of decades.

Actually the summer holidays impact more than schools. I work in healthcare and we have had a flurry of referrals and the belief is that due to school holidays loads of staff have to take leave across the NHS leaving teams thin in the ground so referrals weren't made. So school holidays potentially have a massive impact on everyone not just teachers.

It would be putting the clocks forward in spring that should be cancelled. Going back in winter is just going back to normal time!

Practically speaking, school is childcare. Or at least, we have structured a lot of our society on that assumption. Which is why this is such a thorny problem.

OPs idea about cutting school holidays is terrible, but she's right about them being childcare hell for many people.

Yes to this, it was the norm within living memory!

Oh definitely. Schools are the most obvious example, but there are lots of sectors where less gets done in the holidays because schooling does in fact function as childcare for millions of parents. We surely learned that lesson during lockdowns.

A big yes to the fact that now two salaries are needed to support a household. Families should be able to live with a decent basic standard of living with only one salary coming in (whether that's the mum or the dad working).

Also the fact that families live so far apart nowadays and the idea of inter-generational living is horrifying to many. Humans are social creatures and it was normal for centuries, millennia even, to have grandparents and extended family around to help with raising children. Working adults got childcare, grandparents got support. Now we work ourselves into the ground to pay through the nose for nursery and exhaust ourselves driving around to care for older relatives in what little spare time we have. Is that really working? (Disclaimer: this does not include where there are medical issues like dementia which require specialist care).

And also the idea that we need to have foreign holidays and become desperately panicked trying to book somewhere, overstretch ourselves financially for them. Regular foreign holidays are a very recent phenomena. They are not sustainable however.

I think people have become addicted to consuming more and more (clothing, holidays, everything really) and we're unable to take pleasure in simple things or even relax entirely. The bottom line is we're rarely happy with our lot anymore, we always need more - another holiday, another dress, another toy - and that's appallingly bad for our mental well-being.

Excellent, dh and I will finally be able to have a cheap holiday with our kids. Apparently September is a lovely time to be away. Not quite sure who’ll teach my classes or run my department. Also not sure who’ll run dh’s school - he’s the head. But that won’t be our problem, we’ll be away 😆

Exactly. Christmas is way worse and people on MN start stressing and moaning about it before August is even over.

People say they feel forced/pressured to do xyz yet they choose to do it and do so for years. Those that don’t and say so get called miserable by some posters who seem to think the joy around Christmas is about gifts and keeping up with social media when in reality many people don’t do all that or half the things seen on Easter, Halloween, or Christmas.

Growing up all those holidays were mainly spending time with friends and family. You had the odd people that were a bit competitive over it, but they were such people naturally anyway.

I don't agree about reducing school holidays. School budgets are stretched to capacity already and teachers can work 60+ hours a week in term time. The holidays are the only respite! I do think that there needs to be more and affordable holiday and wraparound care in all areas. I say that as someone who has access to an excellent and modestly priced holiday club but I and my career would have been stuffed without it.

I would like to see an end to tipping which seems to be headed the way of the US in the sense that a certain percentage is now just expected rather than a discretionary award for good service. If its expected just add it to the cost price and do away with tipping altogether. (I do tip waiting staff, taxis, hairdressers etc but I feel uneasy that it's expected and also that retail workers, carers etc are also on minimum wage but never tipped.)

Ticket booking fees really get on my tits. I don't object to paying a booking fee in principle but why why why is it per ticket not per booking??? If its per ticket then its actually part of the ticket price so just bloody say so!

Agree about archaic traditions of being given away at weddings, it being the norm to take husband's name and give the children husband's name. I didn't do any of those things but most married women I know did at least one of them. It's sexist and outdated and gives the impression that women should be proud to be married but men don't have to be because they are busy being important in their own right.

Ahhhh I feel better now.

YY re booking fees! Absolute scam. I got 'secondary rage' reading your post 😂

Sorry, loved the long school holidays. Yabu.

Someone clearly needs to tell the government that school isn’t free childcare then as continuing to receive benefits latches on the idea that you can start a working once your child starts school. Really grinds my gears when people say tough about not being able to work school isn’t free childcare well the government think
it is

Ah, the ‘school isn’t childcare’ brigade. I haven’t encountered that argument since the good old covid days.

School absolutely is, among other things, childcare.

Make up needs to be less gendered. For a long time, only women could wear make up and it was largely expected. I'm pleased that increasingly, women choosing not to wear make up, or very minimal make up, is considered normal and acceptable. But I think make up should be seen as equally normal for use by men.

Lots of teenage boys are as self conscious about their looks - the ability to learn to emphasise their eyes or cover blemishes seems reasonable. ditto for men.

OBVIOUSLY, all by choice.

also, I think ties should be abolished. I honestly don't understand the point of them in the 21st century.

Correct. It's very difficult already when just a few children are taken out for holidays in term time - making it an "entitlement" would be an absolute nightmare for teachers.

Indeed. They learnt Latin and Greek. That was it.

The notion that “powering through” at the expense of ones physical or mental health is a virtue.

If you have that attitude, you should not have children. No, school is NOT childcare. Obviously parents use that free time and organise their childcare around school hours/ school days.

Schools are not there to give parents their "me time", they are there to teach the children. 6 weeks holidays are already too short for the high majority of children. Anyone with kids will see how much they need a break. They also need opportunities to have a life out of school, the older they get, the more they will miss on these opportunities.

We keep banging on about mental health, adults having a better work/life balance but at the same time some people would like to put their kids at school full time so they don't have to deal with them? Come on, it's nonsense, it's not in the child's best interests and you know it.