Someone needs help but have discovered a chequered history

[Amaryllis123]

Attempt at long story short. Which will fail as I don't want to drip feed. Have NC as some details are outing.

Tradesman we’ve known for a number of years - at one stage he did a project for us where we saw him in our home almost every day for 6 months - came over a few days ago to discuss some new work with us and turns out has fallen on very hard times. Very depressed, has lost a lot of weight and says he has thought about ending it. Currently homeless. In the last couple of days we’ve given him £100 for food and petrol and paid the arrears on his storage as otherwise his stuff including his tools was going to be disposed of (storage company corroborated this to me). We felt, given what he told us, that if he lost his tools he’d be finished altogether. We agreed that we’d do this as an advance on the work we had been discussing.

We also offered that he could stay in our annexe for a few weeks while he got back on his feet and in return he’d do the rest of the work on our property - but he’ll do that in the evenings and at weekends and will be out earning revenue on work days, so he can get a deposit together for a flat etc.

He’s a good guy, very likeable, had a very hard start in life but seemed to us to have turned it around until he recently broke up with his gf and is now homeless as a result. He is really very good at what he does.

However today we’ve spoken to some other people he has worked for, friends of ours who we trust, and have discovered that he has been drinking, gambling, almost certainly taking drugs, that the job he did for them was the biggest he’d ever done, with him project managing other tradesmen but he spaffed most of the money, about £50k over a year, didn’t pay his workmen, one of whom was an inlaw to whom he now owes about £1000, he has been taken to court by at least one other quite prominent tradesmen he didn’t pay, when still with the gf was hiding in the bathroom at home so he could gamble online without his gf knowing. To cap it all friend asked me if I knew he’d been to prison. She’d done a Google search and about four items in is a newspaper article about him being a sentenced to more than 4 years for a serious violent crime. He got out just over 7 years ago. She says the reason he is homeless and has nowhere to go is because he has screwed everyone, let everyone down, owes money here there and everywhere. She said it's such a shame because he's really talented at what he does. She had at one stage offered to let him stay at their property, and even the guy who is suing him had at one stage offered to let him stay with him, they were good mates befriend it all went pear shaped. So she could understand why we had also made such an offer but she said Amaryllis lots of people have offered to help him yet he's still in this predicament now.

I really mean this - he is a good guy and we still want to help him. We do think he needs help. I feel really sorry for him. He has said quite a few times over the last day or two that he is so glad we haven’t judged him. I was really disappointed to see the article about his offences but at the end of the day he did his time and he hasn’t committed any further crimes since then. However that newspaper article, which has his very recognisable picture, will probably be online forever now.

Obviously we are not now going to let him stay in our annexe. I’ve asked him to come here tomorrow so I can tell him this face to face. I don’t know how he’ll take it. I think it’s more likely that he will cry than he will be angry and threaten us.

I also want to tell him that we are still happy for him to leave his stuff here, it can stay in an outhouse. The outhouse needs some repairs, he knows this, it's one of the jobs we discussed, and he doesn’t want his stuff to go in there until it’s waterproof and sound so my attitude is ok do the work to make it so, you owe us that for paying off the storage arrears. We are also happy to help him with looking overall at his situation, what money he owes, how to get him out of this current situation by helping him market his work, and just generally keeping an eye on him, offering a listening ear.

We won’t give him any more money upfront. I'm concerned the money we've given him so far has maybe been squandered already. I can call the storage place tomorrow morning myself to check, that will be interesting. He has plenty of skills and there is plenty he could do for us to earn money as he goes along.

My AIBU is - are we being unreasonable to continue to help him? would it be reasonable to say “you know what? you are not our responsibility, there’s a reason why you are telling us that your gf has thrown you out, you haven’t seen your Mum for 2 years, that your siblings won’t help you, that you have no friends, and despite your obvious skills which are very transferable and useful, no money. You’ve told us yourself that you are a drinker and a gambler, and we strongly suspect now that drugs are also involved and we know people like you lie to get your way. You won’t change.”

He’s not a relative or friend, just a tradesman we are fond of. But he has a lot of good qualities and if we don’t help him now then who will, it could be the last straw.

YABU - don’t get further involved. Cut your losses now.

YANBU - continue to help him. Everyone deserves a chance particularly if they have truly finally hit rockbottom

Sorry it's so long. Thanks for reading. Look forward to the responses.

My advice would be to stay well clear. It's sad he's in this position, but to willingly choose to get involved would be madness, as many family members of addicts would attest.

If you do try to help, be very careful. Addicts put their addictions first, even before those they love the most, as has happened here. He won't think twice about taking advantage of your kindness. Do not give him anymore money. If you allow him in your property, lock away anything valuable or he will sell/pawn it. That includes anything you have in your outbuilding. I'm amazed he hasn't got rid of his tools yet frankly. I know someone in a similar line of work who did exactly that, then kept getting jobs where tools were supplied and pawned those before inevitably being sacked (it's easy to get multiple jobs with handyman skills in a highly populated area).

Oh dear.

In the nicest possible way, I think you're kind but naive. You will incur stress and worry (you already are) and will likely incur loss of property. He also has a criminal history, which at the very least is a big red flag. It's very unlikely this guy is going to complete the work he promised you, especially as he will think that once it's done he'll have nowhere to live.

What makes you believe you're different to anyone else who has been involved with this guy? They tried to help too and got burned. Don't ignore the warning signs.

OP, have you phoned the storage place to check that he definitely spent the money on the amount owed to them?

It's not a question of whether he deserves help or not for me - I think everyone does and you can do it if you want and have your eyes wide open about what people are like and what addiction is like and literally expect nothing from him in the way of recovery. Although if you have kids I don't think it's responsible to have him live with you quite honestly.

I would ask yourself though, in really the nicest possible way, why you want to help him. Do you think you can rescue him? Do you expect his gratitude in return (you're unlikely to get it in the long term)? Do you have a past of trying to rescue people and is there some unconscious pattern you're following? Because you may be bringing yourself just pain and disappointment kind of on purpose if any of that is the case.

I think the state should have provision for this kind of case exactly because individuals often have either dodgy motives or a naive outlook bit if you're convinced you have neither you should help if you want to. It's not like the state actually does help.

Drugs, addictions, gambling are not great but the sole reason he would never be setting foot in my house is the violence.

I was subjected to severe violence as a child, my stepfather choked/strangled me and I’m lucky to be alive and because of my MH issues which were triggered when my child died have spent time around other people with serious MH issues. Almost all of them had fallen in to the hands of abusers who had been violent. I have also worked as a volunteer with women who have suffered DV.

I don’t care how sorry people are if they are capable of violence and enough to be put in prison because that service is on its knees like many other sectors then it must have been something very serious indeed.

@fourelementary I agree that addiction is an illness and that people can recover from it with a lot of support.

The problem is that there are victims involved. This guy has hurt people and stolen from them (maybe not directly, but by not paying them for work they had done in good faith) and betrayed their trust. He was not honest about any of this when he was telling the OP his hard-luck story. OP needs to protect herself - she can still offer help if she wants to, but she should not offer anything she can't afford to lose and she should not get emotionally involved.

I've been waiting for them to open

I think you've summarised position perfectly

I asked MNHQ about the issue with my op appearing in bold or whatever and whether this could be fixed - here's their response (which I've had to cut and paste so it will also now probably appear in bold caps!)

Hi there,
Sadly not, it would seem. I tried to edit it but it looks perfectly normal at the back end, and despite anything I did with the text outside of our systems it still copied in bold when it got back to your post.
Sorry to disappoint!
Best,
Hope
MNHQ

Imagine this guy who you hardly even know coming round your house to give you a quote for some work laying it on you that he’s homeless and suicidal. How very professional of him. So naturally you give him a load of cash and ask him to stay in your house. Then a whole bunch of people tell you he’s a drug addict, a gambling addict, a drinker, that his girlfriend has kicked him out, that he’s gambled away 50 grand while not paying his men. Then you Google him and find out he’s done time for a serious violent crime.

He’s a good guy though, a really good guy, a good good really good proper top guy.

Until you mentioned his mother, I thought this was my abusive ex, as the history, sob story and field of work are the same (and yes, there's drugs involved) and I know his gf finished with him fairly recently which has meant he's homeless.

But he's a liar and could well be pretending his mother is alive so if his initials are SP, he's taking you for a ride. and given the similarities, I'd imagine this guy is taking you for a ride just as SP would!

Just to clarify, I did say in my op "Obviously we are not now going to let him stay in our annexe."

That's off the table completely and irrevocably.

My AIBU was more about whether in the circumstances as they now are and with the knowledge we now have, we should continue to try to help him in any way at all or whether we should just cut him off completely.

I would point him in the direction of maybe his gp or a drugs rehab place.

Bit of a coincidence that after a chat with you he’s now been round to his estranged mothers for dinner.
Watch yourself OP. You sound like a lovely kind person but this man sounds like a complete (conniving)charmer

On the basis that tradesmen who do a good job are like gold dust, i would have him complete any jobs you want done and pay him, deducting what you have already shelled out. But I wouldn't have him stay and, like any other tradesman in your house, I would check he is not/can't steal from you.

I would say that if a lie from an addict makes you reconsider helping them, then you should not help them because it will not be the last lie they tell you. And it's absolutely ok not to help them in that case.

Thing is OP, he doesn’t have a checkered history, he’s got an incredibly dodgy present, and that’s very very different indeed.

people don’t get sent down for giving somebody a bit of a shove in a pub scuffle, or even lamping a dude. To get sent down the violence has to be incredibly serious.

He’s not told you any of this, though, not a word of it, you’ve had to find out of other people via the Internet. Do you think that makes him trustworthy? Do you think that suggests a man who is ready and willing to put the serious amount of effort, reflection, brutal honesty, and willpower in that it takes to get clear of addictions and back on his feet?

It’s all well and good wanting to hold onto the back of his bike until he gets going again by himself, but in order for him to do that he need to be peddling. Do you think this guy is peddling?

The storage place have confirmed that he paid off the arrears on Monday immediately after we went him the money for this, but not the £50 late fee which he still owes - and which was included in the amount we sent him. He did tell me on Monday something about the late fee being waived if he could pay that day....we will see what he says about this today.

So a partial positive on this aspect. At least the majority of the money was used for the purpose it was given.

He's told you a pack of lies to gain your sympathy. You're foolish to let him into your property to stay.

This is going to end badly..

Wow, it sounds exactly like our old builder. I really sympathise OP. We make the mistake of being too friendly and kind, listening to his problems and trying to help. Ended up paying 15k up front and even buying him new tools to help him out. The first 1-2 weeks he was amazing. but by week three he had relationship issues and a mental health breakdown. He would turn up sporadically and leave after an hour. When we would have a calm word with him, he would take it well and accept fault and promise to pull his socks up. Then like clockwork send ridiculous long WhatsApp rants at 3am calling us all sorts, blaming us and the world for everything and then in the morning apologise profusely - promise to be there at 8:30 and turn up on the job at 5pm and staying until 10pm, using our house as a hiding place and not actually doing any work. Getting rid of him was near impossible as he was convinced we were his friends. We had enough final showdown with him as our 5 week job turned into 18 weeks with no end in site.

We had a six figure full job next for which the plan was to test him on the smaller job. For us loosing 15k was a blessing as if he did the big job we would have been screwed. He still believed he was in the running even though he'd bungled up the smaller job and wasn't even close to finishing and kept reducing his quote for the next project thinking it was a matter of price. It dropped over 60% in a day. He was in rent arrears and was going to be evicted and depending on the second job.

When we went with another firm, we gave him £1500 out of pity to get rid of him. He begged us to let him finish what he started and would not ask for a penny more as he had been paid double and wasted thousands in materials as he had to redo work due to mistakes.

This meant the new builders and him crossed over. As you can imagine after a few days on the job they thought he and his work was an utter joke and he was ripping us off. When the new builder flagged his terrible workmanship there was a huge argument and he stormed off never to return. Success!

After another 3am rant he sent us a random additional invoice claiming we took advantage of him so needed to revise his quote retrospectively. Strangely the amount he was claiming was the same as his rent arrears. Last I heard he his partner and kids left him, homeless and posting angry random tin foil hat videos on NextDoor, while still trying to soliciting work on the app!

@Daddydog I’m in US unfortunately drugs are a very common problem in the building trades here. I think there are a number of reasons including:

hard physical labor which often results in physical pain

scheduling based on availability and supplies which sometimes mean loads of unexpected downtime,

days which begin and end earlier than the business world meaning you can hit the pub before the wife and kids get home on a daily basis if so inclined

Often paid in cash which makes it easy to spend a bit on drugs without anyone knowing (at first).

It’s also harder to get “fired” from a job for not showing up and easier to move on to a new job if needed so much easier to blow off a day here and there.

and more…

I had a carpenter that I paid in increments. He would ask for a bit of cash and I knew that meant I wouldn’t see him for a few days. It was so sad - a highly skilled and talented man and easily in his 60s at this point. We even talked about the perils of drugs at some point. (He brought it up, not me.) I saw shame on his face when he came back after being gone for a longer stint and realized that I knew what was going on.

The thing I saw help people was being direct with them without judgement. Understanding without acceptance. I guess. I know my loved one said that’s what made a difference for him when he got clean. In the end he relapsed and overdosed and died. I’m grateful to every person that treated him with kindness though. It wasn’t something I was able to do as long and as well as I would have hoped.

Thank you for your words @aliceolive

I'm particularly going to hold onto the words about being direct with him without judgement and being kind.

I have spoken to him now and told him that he can't stay here. He accepted that.

He is still coming over to see us later today and to discuss everything else.

You are not his social worker, you are not a charity or gambling addiction professional.

He is just a tradesman you happen to know, and while it's nice to help people, in this case, you have over-stepped the mark.

Remove his things, cut all contact and tell him that this is the end of it.

Once he becomes a tenant or lodger, you may then have to seek legal action to remove him from your outhouse or annexe.

You owe him nothing. Other people have tried and failed, and who's to say he won't get violent with you.

"You are not his social worker, you are not a charity or gambling addiction professional.

He is just a tradesman you happen to know, and while it's nice to help people, in this case, you have over-stepped the mark. "

What "mark" is this? Probably a good thing that you're not in charge of who is allowed to help who.

Comments like this just make me want to plough ahead with helping him however I can.