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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Someone needs help but have discovered a chequered history

83 replies

Amaryllis123 · 01/11/2023 23:58

Attempt at long story short. Which will fail as I don't want to drip feed. Have NC as some details are outing.

Tradesman we’ve known for a number of years - at one stage he did a project for us where we saw him in our home almost every day for 6 months - came over a few days ago to discuss some new work with us and turns out has fallen on very hard times. Very depressed, has lost a lot of weight and says he has thought about ending it. Currently homeless. In the last couple of days we’ve given him £100 for food and petrol and paid the arrears on his storage as otherwise his stuff including his tools was going to be disposed of (storage company corroborated this to me). We felt, given what he told us, that if he lost his tools he’d be finished altogether. We agreed that we’d do this as an advance on the work we had been discussing.

We also offered that he could stay in our annexe for a few weeks while he got back on his feet and in return he’d do the rest of the work on our property - but he’ll do that in the evenings and at weekends and will be out earning revenue on work days, so he can get a deposit together for a flat etc.

He’s a good guy, very likeable, had a very hard start in life but seemed to us to have turned it around until he recently broke up with his gf and is now homeless as a result. He is really very good at what he does.

However today we’ve spoken to some other people he has worked for, friends of ours who we trust, and have discovered that he has been drinking, gambling, almost certainly taking drugs, that the job he did for them was the biggest he’d ever done, with him project managing other tradesmen but he spaffed most of the money, about £50k over a year, didn’t pay his workmen, one of whom was an inlaw to whom he now owes about £1000, he has been taken to court by at least one other quite prominent tradesmen he didn’t pay, when still with the gf was hiding in the bathroom at home so he could gamble online without his gf knowing. To cap it all friend asked me if I knew he’d been to prison. She’d done a Google search and about four items in is a newspaper article about him being a sentenced to more than 4 years for a serious violent crime. He got out just over 7 years ago. She says the reason he is homeless and has nowhere to go is because he has screwed everyone, let everyone down, owes money here there and everywhere. She said it's such a shame because he's really talented at what he does. She had at one stage offered to let him stay at their property, and even the guy who is suing him had at one stage offered to let him stay with him, they were good mates befriend it all went pear shaped. So she could understand why we had also made such an offer but she said Amaryllis lots of people have offered to help him yet he's still in this predicament now.

I really mean this - he is a good guy and we still want to help him. We do think he needs help. I feel really sorry for him. He has said quite a few times over the last day or two that he is so glad we haven’t judged him. I was really disappointed to see the article about his offences but at the end of the day he did his time and he hasn’t committed any further crimes since then. However that newspaper article, which has his very recognisable picture, will probably be online forever now.

Obviously we are not now going to let him stay in our annexe. I’ve asked him to come here tomorrow so I can tell him this face to face. I don’t know how he’ll take it. I think it’s more likely that he will cry than he will be angry and threaten us.

I also want to tell him that we are still happy for him to leave his stuff here, it can stay in an outhouse. The outhouse needs some repairs, he knows this, it's one of the jobs we discussed, and he doesn’t want his stuff to go in there until it’s waterproof and sound so my attitude is ok do the work to make it so, you owe us that for paying off the storage arrears. We are also happy to help him with looking overall at his situation, what money he owes, how to get him out of this current situation by helping him market his work, and just generally keeping an eye on him, offering a listening ear.

We won’t give him any more money upfront. I'm concerned the money we've given him so far has maybe been squandered already. I can call the storage place tomorrow morning myself to check, that will be interesting. He has plenty of skills and there is plenty he could do for us to earn money as he goes along.

My AIBU is - are we being unreasonable to continue to help him? would it be reasonable to say “you know what? you are not our responsibility, there’s a reason why you are telling us that your gf has thrown you out, you haven’t seen your Mum for 2 years, that your siblings won’t help you, that you have no friends, and despite your obvious skills which are very transferable and useful, no money. You’ve told us yourself that you are a drinker and a gambler, and we strongly suspect now that drugs are also involved and we know people like you lie to get your way. You won’t change.”

He’s not a relative or friend, just a tradesman we are fond of. But he has a lot of good qualities and if we don’t help him now then who will, it could be the last straw.

YABU - don’t get further involved. Cut your losses now.

YANBU - continue to help him. Everyone deserves a chance particularly if they have truly finally hit rockbottom

Sorry it's so long. Thanks for reading. Look forward to the responses.

OP posts:
CousinGoldfinch · 02/11/2023 07:06

The facts that he is homeless and suicidal remain though? Which I thought is why you offered him to stay in your outhouse. Do you now feel at risk, even though you think he is a good guy? Or that he might steal from you? Genuine question.
I would search for homelessness support charities in your area. They have workers who are trained in supporting people with addiction and mental health problems, who will also signpost them to other sources of support. You could even phone one for him and take him there.

CousinGoldfinch · 02/11/2023 07:09

Just seen your updates. It's heattwarming that there are caring people like you in the world. I'm glad you're going to protect yourselves and your own boundaries while still looking out for him.

graceinspace999 · 02/11/2023 07:27

It’s been seven years since prison?
Has he been behaving since then?

It is very hard to start from nothing after prison and this man should have had support from addiction services, homeless services etc.

Maybe he could stay in your annex subject to conditions like no alcohol/drugs and accessing services etc.

it’s really up to you and your husband to access the situation carefully and setting strong boundaries.

I had a gardener live in a hut in my garden for three years as he was living in his van.

He had a drug record but had been living clean for a couple of years.

We took a chance and it worked out very well.

While with us he completed a horticultural course and worked and saved up as much as he could.

After a few years he’d proved himself trustworthy to his (estranged) dad who bought a tumble down cottage for him.

He has worked very hard fixing this up and is now doing great!

I dont think you’ll get much help here as nobody knows the situation like you do and a lot of the answers you get will be judgemental.

I suggest you talk it through with him, if you’re comfortable then suggest a probationary period.

Homelessness causes so many other problems whereas a base can provide a chance to get off the merry go round.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

fourelementary · 02/11/2023 07:34

I’d definitely help and your knowledge you have now only really changes the issue of not giving him cash to gamble. So many people here this week talking about Matt Perry and how addiction is an illness and yet on here people are so quick to say he’s a User and don’t help him.
In you talk- please don’t say “we know you won’t change” I think you say “we know x about your past but we see THIS in you now. Yes things may be tricky for you and yes you need real professional support but you CAN change if you want to and here is how we can help.” I don’t even see why staying in your Annex isn’t an option now as long as you have clear terms and boundaries and stick to them…
I am rooting for this guy…people can change. And people like you can help and are amazing.

Amaryllis123 · 02/11/2023 07:57

CousinGoldfinch · 02/11/2023 07:06

The facts that he is homeless and suicidal remain though? Which I thought is why you offered him to stay in your outhouse. Do you now feel at risk, even though you think he is a good guy? Or that he might steal from you? Genuine question.
I would search for homelessness support charities in your area. They have workers who are trained in supporting people with addiction and mental health problems, who will also signpost them to other sources of support. You could even phone one for him and take him there.

Yes I think given what I now know that he might steal from us, that's a risk and no matter which way we cut it he would be living in our home basically, albeit an annexe. If things went sour that would be terrible for all of us. He has told us he is staying at a niece's house for now. He also told us that he hadn't seen his mum for 2 years but after we helped him on Monday he made contact and he told me last night he was round at hers for dinner. So things have already changed a bit this week.

OP posts:
Whydoifeelsobadallthetime · 02/11/2023 07:57

@Amaryllis123 I'm sorry, I assumed there was a husband. I think my mind just assumed that your partner was a man as a heterosexual woman. Apologies for that!

But I'm glad to read your updates. You're obviously kind people, and I'm glad to see you'll protect yourselves.

Amaryllis123 · 02/11/2023 08:06

graceinspace999 · 02/11/2023 07:27

It’s been seven years since prison?
Has he been behaving since then?

It is very hard to start from nothing after prison and this man should have had support from addiction services, homeless services etc.

Maybe he could stay in your annex subject to conditions like no alcohol/drugs and accessing services etc.

it’s really up to you and your husband to access the situation carefully and setting strong boundaries.

I had a gardener live in a hut in my garden for three years as he was living in his van.

He had a drug record but had been living clean for a couple of years.

We took a chance and it worked out very well.

While with us he completed a horticultural course and worked and saved up as much as he could.

After a few years he’d proved himself trustworthy to his (estranged) dad who bought a tumble down cottage for him.

He has worked very hard fixing this up and is now doing great!

I dont think you’ll get much help here as nobody knows the situation like you do and a lot of the answers you get will be judgemental.

I suggest you talk it through with him, if you’re comfortable then suggest a probationary period.

Homelessness causes so many other problems whereas a base can provide a chance to get off the merry go round.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

I think the main difference here is that we doubt X is clean or if he is it can only have been for a very short time

OP posts:
Amaryllis123 · 02/11/2023 08:07

graceinspace999 · 02/11/2023 07:27

It’s been seven years since prison?
Has he been behaving since then?

It is very hard to start from nothing after prison and this man should have had support from addiction services, homeless services etc.

Maybe he could stay in your annex subject to conditions like no alcohol/drugs and accessing services etc.

it’s really up to you and your husband to access the situation carefully and setting strong boundaries.

I had a gardener live in a hut in my garden for three years as he was living in his van.

He had a drug record but had been living clean for a couple of years.

We took a chance and it worked out very well.

While with us he completed a horticultural course and worked and saved up as much as he could.

After a few years he’d proved himself trustworthy to his (estranged) dad who bought a tumble down cottage for him.

He has worked very hard fixing this up and is now doing great!

I dont think you’ll get much help here as nobody knows the situation like you do and a lot of the answers you get will be judgemental.

I suggest you talk it through with him, if you’re comfortable then suggest a probationary period.

Homelessness causes so many other problems whereas a base can provide a chance to get off the merry go round.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

I'm really glad that your situation worked out well.

OP posts:
graceinspace999 · 02/11/2023 08:12

@Amaryllis123 I wish you all the best however you decide.

Amaryllis123 · 02/11/2023 08:15

fourelementary · 02/11/2023 07:34

I’d definitely help and your knowledge you have now only really changes the issue of not giving him cash to gamble. So many people here this week talking about Matt Perry and how addiction is an illness and yet on here people are so quick to say he’s a User and don’t help him.
In you talk- please don’t say “we know you won’t change” I think you say “we know x about your past but we see THIS in you now. Yes things may be tricky for you and yes you need real professional support but you CAN change if you want to and here is how we can help.” I don’t even see why staying in your Annex isn’t an option now as long as you have clear terms and boundaries and stick to them…
I am rooting for this guy…people can change. And people like you can help and are amazing.

Well, that brought tears to my eyes.

We definitely will not say we don't think you can change. We have both told him to his face that we think he's a great guy and very talented and as are just so sorry he's on this position.

For now staying here is off the table. We've had bad experiences before, even in much more straightforward cases without all the other issues, with living arrangements. I don't want to go into all the detail but inviting someone to live in live in home or in close proximity is a big thing, and if it goes sour it's a terrible thing.

Both of us have had close family members who have been, as it happens, alcoholics and we used to foster complex cases so we have come across some of the issues. This has made us more empathetic in some ways but also we need to safeguard ourselves too.

OP posts:
Amaryllis123 · 02/11/2023 08:16

graceinspace999 · 02/11/2023 08:12

@Amaryllis123 I wish you all the best however you decide.

Thank you for that, much appreciated

OP posts:
Ofcourseshecan · 02/11/2023 08:18

You and DH are very kind people. I hope this turns out well for all of you.

TheOneWhereWeDontGiveAPhuck · 02/11/2023 08:19

I don't think I'd tell him the reason why he can't stay now. I think I'd come up with something believable so it let him down gently. Whilst still having him do some work etc, but not leaving yourself exposed to him.

Amaryllis123 · 02/11/2023 08:21

Whydoifeelsobadallthetime · 02/11/2023 07:57

@Amaryllis123 I'm sorry, I assumed there was a husband. I think my mind just assumed that your partner was a man as a heterosexual woman. Apologies for that!

But I'm glad to read your updates. You're obviously kind people, and I'm glad to see you'll protect yourselves.

No worries. I didn't make it clear. 😊

OP posts:
Whataretheodds · 02/11/2023 08:23

I'm curious as to why his past matters to you now - when you made the offer you didn't know him, didn't haven't alternative "cleaner' version of his back story, didn't research him.

You could set some ground rules- if he's going to stay there he has to be clean and sober - but if he isn't already then he's going to struggle to do that without support so you'd want to know he was accessing NA, AA etc

Amaryllis123 · 02/11/2023 08:25

TheOneWhereWeDontGiveAPhuck · 02/11/2023 08:19

I don't think I'd tell him the reason why he can't stay now. I think I'd come up with something believable so it let him down gently. Whilst still having him do some work etc, but not leaving yourself exposed to him.

I'm working on it. We don't want fo make things worse.

OP posts:
Flyawaybirdfly · 02/11/2023 08:26

How did you make the OP so big and bold?
I didn’t know you could change the size of font!

Fkalfkfcnmoo59600789 · 02/11/2023 08:29

I don’t think you should help him personally, I would shut the door on him and leave him to it and let him take his tools with him,
he will probably sell them to fund his addictions anyway.
This guy can’t be helped as you’ve seen with previous people telling you they’ve helped him and he’s rung them out to dry.
I can’t believe your still trying to help him after your friend warned you tbh.

Amaryllis123 · 02/11/2023 08:29

Whataretheodds · 02/11/2023 08:23

I'm curious as to why his past matters to you now - when you made the offer you didn't know him, didn't haven't alternative "cleaner' version of his back story, didn't research him.

You could set some ground rules- if he's going to stay there he has to be clean and sober - but if he isn't already then he's going to struggle to do that without support so you'd want to know he was accessing NA, AA etc

His past matters now because had we known more we would not have made the offer for him to actually stay here. He told us only a partial account of his situation. We were caught on the hop and it was a knee jerk reaction to say if you don't have anywhere else to stay you could stay here.

OP posts:
Amaryllis123 · 02/11/2023 08:32

Flyawaybirdfly · 02/11/2023 08:26

How did you make the OP so big and bold?
I didn’t know you could change the size of font!

Foolish school girl error. I cut and pasted into MN from word and I don't know how to correct it. To me it looks fine (I'm on an iPhone). Luckily enough people have persevered despite the fact that my op looks like I'm a weirdo or a bot, for me to have garnered some useful advice and a bit of moral support that we are not absolute idiots to try to help in some way without exposing ourselves to harm or loss.

OP posts:
Amaryllis123 · 02/11/2023 08:35

Fkalfkfcnmoo59600789 · 02/11/2023 08:29

I don’t think you should help him personally, I would shut the door on him and leave him to it and let him take his tools with him,
he will probably sell them to fund his addictions anyway.
This guy can’t be helped as you’ve seen with previous people telling you they’ve helped him and he’s rung them out to dry.
I can’t believe your still trying to help him after your friend warned you tbh.

Hmm an interesting perspective. I think everyone can be helped but of course not everyone can be cured. If we can help someone without opening ourselves to harm or loss then we are going to do it.

OP posts:
Fkalfkfcnmoo59600789 · 02/11/2023 08:37

@Amaryllis123 i have direct experience with an addict, please take this onboard you won’t be able to help him because he isn’t capable of changing anything in his life he’s just drifting from one life line to another.
When they know that life line is about to be cut off then they change, he’s being all charming now because tbh your enabling him and his behaviour by offering so much time and money to help him.
Your friend has warned you, so many other people have helped him out like you have and he’s still the same.

DiamandaTheGreat · 02/11/2023 08:40

@Fkalfkfcnmoo59600789 I appreciate your point, but that's a pretty damning assessment - do you think there's.no hope for this guy at all or is it just that you think the OP won't be able to help him, as a non-professional?

@Amaryllis123 I feel for you - you're being very thoughtful in a very difficult situation.

Sanguinello · 02/11/2023 08:42

The violent crime and drug/drink/gambling would put me off.

Fkalfkfcnmoo59600789 · 02/11/2023 08:44

@DiamandaTheGreat really sorry to say, no there’s not. If OP helps him out she will incur loss and stress with trying to help him.
The evidence is there with what her friend has told her, he isn’t going to change because people keep helping him with good intentions and he’s flitting from one life line to another.
OP please revisit this with a clear head and really think if you want to get further involved with this guy, I’m really dubious that he’s going to honour his commitments to the work project you need him for as well tbh.
With addicts they need to help themselves, others can’t do that for them I’m afraid.