to not know what difference a female perspective would have made?

[icewoman]

Covid enquiry.

Helen McNamara, deputy cabinet secretary says women were being ignored and disregarded and the female point of view was missing from most decision making

I have no difficulty believing that our revered leaders behaved like a bunch or ignorant arrogant chauvinistic pigs but I do wonder what, if anything, a female point of view would have changed about the decision making?

MarilynBoo · Today 13:26

How policies would impact on children, carers, women experiencing domestic abuse in lockdown etc. Things I doubt the men in the room gave a second thought to.

Exactly this. The right people weren’t at the table. There was expertise in these areas that was missing from the decision making.

I watched her testimony and she was brilliant. So depressing though.

OP, I don't believe Mr Johnson is a chauvinist, I know he is. When he dies I am sure many more accounts of his behaviour will come out, people are quiet for fear of damage to their careers or having to defend a libel action.

I think what she means by 'female perspective' is actually empathy, awareness of a range of groups of people and what they might need, some experience of what 'ordinary' lives are like in this country, and a willingness to provide some leadership. None of those are inherently female traits but it's certainly true that women do the vast majority of caring for other people

I remember when Christmas plans were banned with just a few days notice, thinking that this was a decision made by a bunch of men who never have to budget or plan for anything because their lives were run for them by women

people like Priti Patel or Dianne Abbot, they're almost universally respected

Thanks, I needed a laugh!

Well, I was hoping they would, but I am not seeing that really, just quite a lot of quite inaccurate and very sexist responses.

What specifically have you read that is inaccurate or sexist?

I think someone implied Priti Patel was empathetic

Are we actually asking how having the opinion of woman who are working woman, know the role of woman, understand the vulnerabilities of woman in DV relationships, understand the woman's role in a home to name a few ......

Would have differed from the view of middle to upper class working men who likely had nannys, SAH partners, partners at home managing the household.

Seriously????

I'm surprised it needed an inquiry to even work out it matters.

But I'm glad the inquiry has highlighted the POV was missing.

Well, I was hoping they would, but I am not seeing that really, just quite a lot of quite inaccurate and very sexist responses. I am going to read that book invisible women though, and have already downloaded it

You seem to think that anything that points out biological and/or social observed differences in society based on sex is sexist.

Maybe you're from the lib-feb tradition of pretending differences don't exist so that you can pretend sexism doesn't either. The "well actually I know a man who..." school of thought. Ignoring that yes, women do most of the unpaid housework, caring, childcare.

Can you coherently articulate why having a female perspective is not an advantage

Or why having a male perspective is an advantage

Or why you feel sex has no impact on decision making

You are asking for a lot of coherent articulate explanations whilst providing very little yourself

“Can you tell me why there should be women involved in decision making?”

dozens of women giving sensible well articulated answers that answer the question

”those answers are sexist because women understand women’s business”

🙄

No, we are asking how having Liz Truss, Priti Patel or Esther McVey would have changed policy. Although maybe we wouldn't have had lockdowns at all, to be fair, so it might have changed things a lot. Possibly not in the way meant today.

then you need to read it again. Properly read and understand because several posters have pointed out exact scenarios where women's voices might have resulted in fewer women ending up dead.

Give me an answer to this question.

Here is an answer to your question.

Not THAT answer. I don't want that answer to my question.

Well, here are two more excellent answers to your questions.

Fuck off they're wrong too

Okay. How about we decide on our terms of reference here?

That's wrong too.

the fact that the names (of women politicians) crop up so often is that there were very very few of them, so we all know who they are. And sure, those ones were shit because they were too busy being politicians and ignoring the actual problems that competent and experienced civil servants were trying to raise.

One of the things that was completely ignored until it was way too late was the issue of abortion and the urgent needs that many women had

The Tories know what a woman is though so apparently that means they don't have to listen to any.

I’m sorry, but male politicians do not get a pass on not considering the impact of their actions on 75% of the population (old people, women and children) just because they aren’t women and can’t be expected to think how things might affect people who are not exactly like them and their donors.

The problem here is that not a single person in that government gave a flying fuck about “normal people”. The precise gender split is an irrelevance.

I had to re-read this several times I was so wishful it was true. But coming to the inevitable conclusion 🤦‍♀️

Of course they don't get a free pass, they deliberately excluded various voices.

But if you want women to be represented, they have to be there.

I would have kind of hoped a female perspective might have changed things and think yes it probably would have helped. However on the other hand I always remember an awful post with a tired nurse telling parents not to grumble about being at home with their kids. As someone who worked in healthcare and soon about to return from maternity leave. I saw the post shared by some colleagues/friends and was quite annoyed about it. Not everyone had children that coped well with lockdown and for many it was quite dire. I was not the only one who was actually glad to get back to work despite often caring for covid positive patients, wearing PPE etc, doing exactly the same job as those sharing the posts. I think it just illustrates that not everyone woman was in the same boat or can even imagine what it’s like for other women

Maybe women wouldn't have been "laughing at the Italians"

I don't know anyone who saw the early covid footage coming out of Italy in early 2020 and found it funny.

But apparently Boris Johnson did.

Apparently she also had to explain to them that attending a football match didn't just involve watching it in the open air, but ALSO,

• being crammed together on public transport
• going through turnstiles and passages in crowds
• going to the pub with your mates afterwards

All of which are rather more risky infection scenarios than the actual watching bit.

Blokes all so well off they Just.Did.Not.Think

Oh and also, that not all back gardens had a back gate. So what do you do if people have to go through your house to get to the garden...

All the "but the nurse..." "but Theresa May..." "but Liz Truss..." are missing the point. For sure at an individual level people can be absolute arses.

At the policy development level, it has been shown time and again that having minority / differing voices at the table brings better results for everyone, not just those who look like the decision makers. I am very sure that if minority voices were heard different faith groups, different cultural groups, women, disabled voices... the decision making wouldn't have been quite as skewed as it was.

Yes, men in power should consider women, minorities, children etc. But we know they don't. Which is one reason women fought so bloody hard for a voice.

And the fact that many (women especially) don't seem to grasp this is depressing. I'm another one who says: read Invisible Women. The snowplough thing is eye-opening and enraging.

It depends which women. I don't think over privileged, self obsessed, power hungry women would have been any better than their male counterparts. Women who were living the impact would have made a difference but so would those men.

'Blokes all so well off they Just.Did.Not.Think

Oh and also, that not all back gardens had a back gate. So what do you do if people have to go through your house to get to the garden...'

I read that she also had to explain that some households only have one toilet / bathroom and no access to outdoor space, and tried to get them to imagine what that would be like under lockdown for weeks on end. Their tiny minds were blown 🙄

I still don't think people are getting the point. It was a Tory government in charge. Your choices in that room making decisions were from Tory politicians of two sexes. They all have the same background and life experiences of each other, and not of the average person. None of them, male or female, have to go through their house to their garden. They don't travel by train to watch the football on a weekend. None of them do the family Xmas shop at Tesco after working all day in a care home. The women as much as the men don't live in houses with one toilet or visit people who have houses with one toilet. The Conservative party could provide you with people of different faiths, colour and gender in that room but it couldn't provide you with people from the working or lower middle classes, male or female.