to not know what difference a female perspective would have made?

[icewoman]

Covid enquiry.

Helen McNamara, deputy cabinet secretary says women were being ignored and disregarded and the female point of view was missing from most decision making

I have no difficulty believing that our revered leaders behaved like a bunch or ignorant arrogant chauvinistic pigs but I do wonder what, if anything, a female point of view would have changed about the decision making?

Good lord, OP. I can't believe you think women wouldn't have added perspective.

In what way?

Perhaps it’s more the ignoring of someone’s opinion/experience/problem solving ability/ expertise just because they have a vagina that’s the issue?
If you ignore half the population then you definitely aren’t getting all the options/expertise.

Lee Cain commented that when the government rejected Marcus Rashford's appeal for food for children during lockdown the government rejected it because they were so far removed from knowing families who relied on school dinners they couldn't see the point. I think more women in the discussion would have resulted in the effects on children, the elderly, the socially and medically vulnerable being recognised sooner and better, but given Johnson I doubt really that he would have done anything. The whole initial response on lockdown seemed to focus on jobs-who could and couldn't go to work, who needed to keep going to work, the effect on the economy. It seemed to be very male dominated work that was being discussed, and not the social implications of social distancing. Discussions on building sites and plumbers etc who went from house to house. No talk on cleaners-domestic or factory-and several died. I don't recall any talk of community social workers, district nurses or any female dominated jobs that involve visiting homes.

Matt Hancock was only state educated at primary level. He went to King's School in Chester which is private.

I think if the country was run by people like her & Louise Casey as the policy makers, it would be a better place.

If you've never worked in a toxic, sexist situation, you have no idea how invisible women are to those type of men.

One of her examples is that impacts on fishing, shooting & football were more of a priority than DV ppe for women.

Women died because of this lack of sight & planning.

You can't understand why the input of a representative of half of the population on issues that affect all of the population would be valuable. Really?

When men are bad at something they are personally blamed for being bad

When women are bad at something they are held up as examples of why "women" as a class are bad at that thing

(although the first does not necessarily hold true if the man is black etc)

‘You can't understand why the input of a representative of half of the population on issues that affect all of the population would be valuable. Really?’

this with bells on…

Does it actually matter whether the female perspective would have 'added' anything. The women in the civil service/government were employed to do a job and entitled to be respected in the jobs they were doing. The fact that they were systematically talked over/ignored during covid means at the very least that a large number of qualified professionals were hindered in doing their job and decision-making was dominated by a self-selecting few. You don't have to think that men and women have their own unique viewpoints to think that this is likely to have been bad for decision making. And fwiw I think it is very likely correct that as many posters have pointed out women are more likely to have considered impact of lockdown on certain vulnerable groups.

The majority of women in these positions get there by behaving like men anyway. SO they aren't giving a female perspective at all. They are giving a male, middle class, arrogant perspective.

How policies would impact on children, carers, women experiencing domestic abuse in lockdown etc. Things I doubt the men in the room gave a second thought to.

This!! I lost count of the amount of times I said that you could tell polices were being made people who have never had to worry about childcare .

It's not just that they were men either, it's that they were, by and large, rich men. She said that a lot of the cabinet couldn't conceive of having no outside space, or only one loo/bathroom.

Not all of us, no - although I absolutely appreciate the point you are making and I have seen it in action.

(You sit there at the boardroom table wanting back-up for a point you've made about, say, social policy not being just a plaything for white, upper middle-class males, and the one other woman in the room decides to play the 'being female never held me back' game.)

Just read her testimony. She gives specific examples of how issues directly affecting women were ignored. She is clear and cogent.

It is utterly depressing to read and yet somehow totally unsurprising. There were many threads about this on here at the time.

I'm hoping that a lot will be learned and understood from the Covid inquiry and if it stops this 'exclusion' ever happening again, then something will have been gained.

And it's equally depressing to read a thread like this dismissing women's concerns on a predominately female forum.

I'd answer you but I'd expect a faux naïve "but how?" response like you've given others.

Instead, I suggest you read the outstanding analysis of just why it's essential women are involved in all fields (and the devastating outcomes when they aren't involved) Invisible Women by Calorline Criando Perez.

It's available in paperback, as a kindle book and in most libraries.

Quite simply, when women are part of the decision making, lives are saved in so many unexpected ways. Even snowplough use is gender-affected.

The more diverse a group, the better the decisions will be.

Well precisely this. And it almost beggars belief that OP would even ask this question!

Watching her talk i thought she also meant the specific women in that room were ignored even though, like her, they were senior in their positions

that boris et al would only listen to ‘men like them’

I said all the time when these random shit decisions were being made at short notice, people having to cancel travel arrangements - we were meant to be going to see family the day after Nick Hancock announced on Twitter at 9pm, fucking 9pm the absolute shitclown, that you could not longer visit people in their homes in Greater Manchester - but hey, in the pub was ok - as it was now in Zone 3 instead of 4 or whatever the random shit system was - that none of these men had obviously ever had to book travel or make arrangements or run an household as they have wives or PAs doing it for them. I think that's what she means.

Bells and flashing lights.

The misogyny believing that men are capable of making all decisions for us, without us! It's astounding.

Where's that meme with the dogs deciding cat medical policy?

The women in government? No difference whatsoever. All of the female, tory prime ministers have been abysmal. None of them have shown any particular care for other women or children. I don't think any of the tory women, in with a chance of decision making, would have made a difference.

'I think if the country was run by people like her & Louise Casey as the policy makers, it would be a better place'

Couldn't agree more. Helen MacNamara's thoughtful, empathetic approach couldn't be more different to Cummings, Johnson, Hancock etc. The only tool they had in their box was to butch it out and hope for the best. Referring to employees like her as 'cunts' - people who were trying hard to figure out the right thing and to show some proper leadership. What a disgraceful shower

And women shouldnt be excluded, talked over, intimidated or patronised because we are half the frigging population. That's why

It's very well documented that diverse groups make better decisions. Surely you're aware of this, OP?

The wider range of perspectives around the table, the better, surely?

Reading some of the replies here, it’s really striking how women have been disadvantaged by the kind of liberal feminism that is purely about economic opportunity and which thinks everything’s fixed because more girls than boys go to uni or whatever - ignoring the fact that the vast majority of women are still expected to do most of the unpaid -shitwork- domestic labour in society.

they ignore women’s biology too, as if it’s a weakness or failing that we need to pretend doesn’t exist, rather than something which must be factored in to how we organise society and the economy if we’re to have true equality.

it’d all very class-inflected too - ‘I have a cleaner so the gendered division of labour is no longer a thing .’

I don't like Suella Braverman, but she had a difficult time fighting for maternity leave and was public about it. Women had to attend maternity appointments, give birth and struggle on alone. It was women getting jobs in the police and fire service that made the misogyny public. It's rare that we don't bring a different perspective, or at least add a voice to a topic which is in danger of being ignored.