It's not fucking demons.

[whatsthatinyourhand]

Just reading the news about Matthew Perry's death and keep reading about how he had demons. He didn't have fucking demons. He had an illness. People wouldn't describe having recurring cancer as 'having demons'.
It's the same thing. He didn't choose to be ill or be an addict. I know this thread is not going to make a difference to anything or anyone but the distinction is important.
I have no idea whether he had 'demons' or not but addiction was not one of them.

Are people allowed to refer to depression as the black dog, or is that not a fucking animal

Saying 'he had his demons' is not the same as believing he was possessed by supernatural beings which would be bonkers.

I don't know about you but I have MY demons. Figure of speech!

I agree with you op. So many things that were said in the past that we quite rightly no longer say. Whether you like it or not there is still stigma around mental health and this doesn’t help .

Correct

I tired of the current trend of sanitising our language usage.

I don't like "battling" used in conjunction with an illness, but some people feel that expresses their feelings and who am I to tell them what currently acceptable word to use?

Let it go.

It means he was struggling with his mental health.

@whatsthatinyourhand Are you trying to highlight that you don't think he was literally demonically possessed? Is that the point of your thread?

I really don't think most people think that when they think someone 'had their demons.' I'm into these things so I believe it's a possibility (but everything MH/addiction has to be ruled out first) but I don't think that's what most people mean in his case.

Even Saville or Rolf, no one would say 'he had his demons,' if they meant it literally, they'd put it in a less offhand way- 'he was demonically possessed.'

Please do not compare addiction to cancer.

Addiction is not an illness in itself. It is a coping mechanism, often for underlying mental health issues, I.e. 'demons'.

There is always a choice to stop, difficult as that choice may be.

A cancer patient does not have that choice.

I’m listening to his autobiography at the moment, it’s clear what the origins of his addiction issues are. He is very open about it, I can totally see why it would be referred to as demons. This is something which haunted him for a long time and the addiction is a symptom of this trauma. Although I have heard him describe it as an illness, I’m not sure that it is in the medical sense, more like a personality disorder which is a ‘condition’ but not a medical one.

As someone upthread said, ‘demons’ is a metaphor for the psychological damage which impacts on some people every day.

I was about to say the same thing. Cancer has ravaged my family and all this talk of 'standing up to cancer' 'battling cancer' 'beating cancer', is bloody awful phrasing.

Implication being if you go into remission, you've 'won' the battle, you fought and beat cancer, meaning if you die from it, you mustn't have tried hard enough to beat it.

I really wish they would change the narrative around this.

Sorry to derail OP.

I have to say though, I think having demons is a good way to describe illness through addiction, sorry.

Addiction is not an illness in itself. It is a coping mechanism, often for underlying mental health issues, I.e. 'demons'.

I get what you mean but often it becomes a thing in itself. Once you have a bad habit/addiction with alcohol/drugs, that becomes something the person also has to address.

I don't think many people are comparing it to cancer. Addiction is a 'fight' that's bad enough, but obviously it's even worse to describe cancer that way as the person has even less control over the outcome.

Just reading the news about Matthew Perry's death and keep reading about how he had demons. He didn't have fucking demons. He had an illness. People wouldn't describe having recurring cancer as 'having demons'. It's the same thing.

It’s not the same thing at all. I absolutely hate the cancer analogy. No one can choose to recover from cancer, but addicts absolutely can and do choose to recover from addiction.

He didn't choose to be ill or be an addict. I know this thread is not going to make a difference to anything or anyone but the distinction is important.

No, of course he didn’t choose to be an addict - it is simply the coping mechanism that works best for him. It is a very effective coping mechanism. It allows people to avoid the pain that has brought them to this point in their life (their “demons”, which is a terrible way to describe trauma) and sadly many die as a result of active addiction. I’m not saying it is easy, but recovery for addiction is an option that people with cancer don’t have.

He described himself as an addict using flowery language takes away from his memory the fact that he actually tried to overcome it and makes it look like he just "couldn't help it" and never actually tried I find it incredibly demeaning

I'm going to haunt anyone who describes me as "having demons" after my death the only tormentors I've ever had are human and dont deserve the title demon

It's the sesh demon innit. That little voice in your ear telling you one wont hurt, it's just the one. Then 6 hours later when you're lagging, to get a bit of sniff, then don't go home, go to a club, get a few tablets and on and on and on with the bad ideas.

A little voice calling you back to the bottom of the bottle/packet.

Dapper Laughs/Daniel O'Reilly actually has some good videos showing this example on Facebook, I think he called it the sesh monster iirc.

I kind of see your point op. I'm a recovering alcoholic and always will be, it is my demon but I'm Catholic so it's a faith based expression. I don't think it's particularly tactful to be bandying the term so flippantly when someone has just died though. The minister at my Mam's funeral said it 5 times in the fucking eulogy, her entire life wasn't just about her struggles, she was a person with more to her personality than just the addictions she struggled with.

I think you are being pedantic and unimaginative.

Addiction is a different kind of illness than cancer, and description addiction as having demons is well established and helps those who haven’t experienced it to understand better.

"demons" isn't in reference to addiction necessarily though. To me, it's referring to the things that drive a person to addiction - trauma, an abusive childhood, mental health issues etc. People can still have various demons and not be an addict

I think demons is a good way to describe addiction. It has a hold over you. It's pernicious and hard to overcome.

Can't believe you compared addiction to cancer - you're off the mark there.

You say Matthew Perry didn't choose to become an addict, but that is where his choices led him - down the road of addiction.

Addiction is about choice - choosing your habit over everything else. And it takes making a choice to overcome it. Choosing to stay clean and sober every day.

I'm with you, OP.
I find euphemistic language like this irritating and unhelpful. A bit like saying 'passed away'.
'Demons' are an unhelpful metaphor, as they suggest something dark and unfathomable to describe conditions such as depression and addiction which really benefit from being destigmatised and demystified.
This usage is often followed by a pregnant pause, a wistful sigh or a 'meaningful' look. Just stop it already. Respect the condition and the person and credit them with factual, plain language.

It's just a saying, it's not literal.

It's just a figure of speech, like passed away, RIP, battled with cancer, etc. Death brings out these phrases, a way of expressing feelings in an acceptable way without the pressure to be original or striking.

I would never use any of the above phrases myself but not take issue with anyone using them. Except the media; they should know better.

I have both cancer – in different people, resulting in recovery, remission or death – and mental illness – varying degrees, from high functioning to dysfunctional/realistically a suicide risk – running quite generously in my family. (I've seen it said that poor mental and physical health come together!) My very close loved ones have passed away due to physical or mental illness.

Actually, my mother was very Christian, and the "pray it away" approach to mental illness usually makes me angry, but I really have nothing against the word demons.

I think it's a good word really, to sum up the sheer hell. If you've ever had mental illness, which I have (although I'm mostly societally functioning, at this point but haven't always been), you know you're never free. It's very much like demons or shadows or monsters following you around in your head all the time, terrorising you.

I've also had health issues and although cancer and other issues do relapse and can be hellish and out of control too (and sometimes result in death, as I know all too well), in some ways it's more straightforward. The illness IS a physical thing in the body. It can, of course, torment the mind too, especially in cases of unimaginable physical pain and hopelessness. But that's a knock-on effect.

However, unlike physical illness, mental illness is inseparable from the mind. The illness isn't a zombie or parasite (or well, a demon – I suppose in a way that's what you're getting at?) taking over the person. In this celebrity's case specifically, addiction is not just like a zombie parasite forcing you to move your hand to put the drugs in your body. The illness IS the mind, and hence often (in a way) the whole consciousness/personhood. Matthew Perry and your brother wanted to escape from their own reality so desperately that they were constantly seeking any short and costly reprieve. That's why treatments for addiction aren't just medical, but largely psychological as well.

I also think it's not confirmed thar he passed away from addiction? He talks about a lot of trauma, abuse, etc in his biography so I think people are referring to all his issues as a whole. I suppose "mental illness, addiction issues, and traumatic life experiences" could substitute

I don’t know if it’s right or wrong to use the term demons. But to me, it’s a way of referring to the person’s MH struggle in a vague way, often because perhaps you don’t know the full picture, or it’s complicated including multiple issues. I don’t have a problem with it especially as we’re talking about someone we don’t really know.