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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aggressive dogs in pubs

153 replies

spookyastic · 26/10/2023 20:51

Me, my husband and my 18 moth toddler were just in a pub for tea, arrived at 6ish and in the corner of the bar were two cocker spaniels who were absolutely fine with everyone in the restaurant except our 18 month old child.
Our 18 month old was exploring (this might be unreasonable on our part) it was a small pub and she was around our bar stools, always within reach but these cockers kept lunging, barking and growling at her, at one point I had to pull my daughter by her arm as she was about to get lunged at, it made the whole experience in a very small pub really intense.
I genuinely don't know if I'm being unreasonable, these dogs were on leads and if my toddler did get bitten it would be because she went in the dogs space.
We don't hate dogs btw, we own trained gundogs ourselves who we trial to a high standard, cockers too, none would ever bite or show aggression:
We didn't say anything, we just were on guard in the bar area until we were seated but what's everyone's thoughts on this? She didn't even apologise for her dogs aggressive behaviour, but equally we didn't apologise for our toddler walking past the dogs or playing near, but it's a small pub and they were in a doorway

OP posts:
Aquestioningmind · 26/10/2023 22:47

spookyastic · 26/10/2023 22:42

I have a strong bond with all my dogs, never had to use choke chains. I spend every spare minute I get training and caring for them. I compete at a high level which you would never achieve unless you had an almost telepathic connection with your dog, I don't expect you to understand

No one can control 15 dogs by humane methods. Not even the police and armed forces have that level of skill.

Why lie OP? This is mumsnet, not the school playground.

VeniVidiWeeWee · 26/10/2023 22:49

jedwardscissorhands27 · 26/10/2023 22:45

Is it a dog pen then?

Show quote history

No. It's a pub. A place for, unless specifically permitted by the licence, adults.

Funnily enough dogs aren't mentioned in the licensing laws.

user746016 · 26/10/2023 22:51

One minute your toddler is “wandering around your barstools but always within reach” the next you are “always holding her hand.”

which is it and is it you or your toddler that has the infeasibly long arms?

ludicrouslycapaciousbags · 26/10/2023 22:51

Mini human 🤢

Paradiseflycatcher · 26/10/2023 22:52

15 dogs? Sure.

SamAndEIIa · 26/10/2023 22:53

MrsSkylerWhite · 26/10/2023 22:46

Never took our 18 month olds to pubs because smoking was still allowed then.

Tbh, even though it is now, decades later, wouldn’t take our little grandson into one either.

if it’s a dog friendly pub, you have to be prepared for all kinds of dogs. Some won’t be friendly.

It depends on the pub. Some pubs, which are more like restaurants where most people are having food, we take our kids too. They usually have separate kids menus, colouring pencils and so on.

Other pubs where most people are sitting around drinking and very few people are eating, then probably wouldn’t take my kids.

I was out at such an establishment on Friday night. Left my children at home. Imagine my disappointment when the table beside me had two primary school aged kids, whilst their parents got sloshed. The staff continually came over to make sure that everyone still had food in front of them as obviously kids shouldn’t be in a pub at night.

AdobeWanKenobi · 26/10/2023 22:53

And Lo! A wild goady fucker appeared…..

BellaAndDave · 26/10/2023 22:55

SamAndEIIa · 26/10/2023 22:44

That one experience put me off taking my reactive dog to a trainer again. They literally had us march him round, yanking his neck every four seconds, to the point that his bark was hoarse afterwards. At one point, they were pulling him so hard with his choke … sorry, “check” collar that he was walking on his two back legs for about 10 metres. We left before the class finished and binned the collar on the way home.

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They’re horrible things to use on an animal and I’d have binned it too. We have a ‘trainer’ near us who advocates shock collars. He won’t look me in the face since I called him out on the use of them in my local pub. I absolutely detest people who can’t/won’t take time to train their dogs without force or abuse. I also hate head leads. It’s a lazy way to train a dog. We had a reactive lab but time and reassurance was the key and it took us a LONG time to undo his issues. There are amazing trainers out there who understand canine behaviour and don’t reach for the aversive tools that can make things worse. Let’s face it, you wouldn’t put a shock collar/ corrective chain on a human to behave so why do it to a dog? I hope you got things sorts for your dog.

Brendabigbaps · 26/10/2023 22:55

I’ve got a basset type dog, by nature they’re soft, friendly etc. my dog is the softest pile of fur you’ve ever met, I have no worries with her around any child.

over summer we stayed in a small dog friendly holiday park where the owners dogs roamed free! New of these friendly roaming free dogs attacked my dog who was happily sat under a table, tied up at the parks request.
fast forward and a couple of weeks ago we were in a dog friendly pub and my docile hound was tied up under the table having a snooze. Another friendly dog came over to say hello, and she went for it.
This was hers and my first experience following the “holiday attack” she can’t be held responsible.

I suppose I’m saying assume the worst amd keep your child safe

Orangewall · 26/10/2023 22:57

Conversations around dogs always seem to prompt extreme reactions. I do know someone with a pack of 8 gun dogs, all gorgeous, brilliantly trained animals who certainly can be controlled by humane methods and compete in field trials to a high standard. Making assumptions of the OP seems low bar. OP, I’m not sure I would have been happy to let my young child wander around a pub with two dogs in the corner who were unhappy, but my concern would also be that if there are two dogs who can’t cope with a child’s presence, they won’t necessarily be content even if the child was strapped into a high chair.

Cosyblankets · 26/10/2023 22:58

I don't believe this happened and i don't believe you are a trainer... not one I'd use anyway. This is a wind up.

BellaAndDave · 26/10/2023 23:00

Orangewall · 26/10/2023 22:57

Conversations around dogs always seem to prompt extreme reactions. I do know someone with a pack of 8 gun dogs, all gorgeous, brilliantly trained animals who certainly can be controlled by humane methods and compete in field trials to a high standard. Making assumptions of the OP seems low bar. OP, I’m not sure I would have been happy to let my young child wander around a pub with two dogs in the corner who were unhappy, but my concern would also be that if there are two dogs who can’t cope with a child’s presence, they won’t necessarily be content even if the child was strapped into a high chair.

You do get amazing gun dog trainers. We have 11. There’s never 11 out on a shoot with one person though! You also never have a ‘pack’ of gun dogs. Gun dogs never run in a ‘pack’. You can take one out at a time depending on the shoot.

We compete in field trials too but neither DH or I would ever say we’d kick a dog in the face, because, well, that’s abusive and we’d never do it. That’s just awful.

Field trails never include a ‘pack’ of dogs. Can I ask what you mean by humane methods?

Deathwillbebutapause · 26/10/2023 23:02

Of all the things that never happened, this didn't happen the most.

SamAndEIIa · 26/10/2023 23:06

BellaAndDave · 26/10/2023 22:55

They’re horrible things to use on an animal and I’d have binned it too. We have a ‘trainer’ near us who advocates shock collars. He won’t look me in the face since I called him out on the use of them in my local pub. I absolutely detest people who can’t/won’t take time to train their dogs without force or abuse. I also hate head leads. It’s a lazy way to train a dog. We had a reactive lab but time and reassurance was the key and it took us a LONG time to undo his issues. There are amazing trainers out there who understand canine behaviour and don’t reach for the aversive tools that can make things worse. Let’s face it, you wouldn’t put a shock collar/ corrective chain on a human to behave so why do it to a dog? I hope you got things sorts for your dog.

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We did get things kind-of sorted for our dog - he was a 4/5 year old rescue when we got him, so it was difficult. He was only dog reactive so we just avoided other places where dogs would be. He died fairly young of cancer.

We have a new dog now who we took to a fantastic dog trainer - funnily enough, they specialised in gun dogs, although our dog is not a gun dog, she is a border collie - and she’s very well trained without ever having to raise our voice, use cruel devices to force her to do what we want, or hit her.

The second trainer knew exactly who the first trainer was based on our description of what happened. And they came highly recommended!

Dillane · 26/10/2023 23:07

It’s half term 🙄🙄🙄🙄

Neriah · 26/10/2023 23:14

spookyastic · 26/10/2023 21:12

We were always holding her hand but she wanted to look at things as normal little humans do. We couldn't even walk through to the seated area without carrying her.
I must be strict when it comes to dog behaviour as I wouldn't put up with it. We have 15 dogs and none show aggression on any level, it's definitely owners who cause it

"Little dogs" are the same. If you are really that experienced then you know that. You manage a child in a dog friendly environmnet.

BellaAndDave · 26/10/2023 23:14

SamAndEIIa · 26/10/2023 23:06

We did get things kind-of sorted for our dog - he was a 4/5 year old rescue when we got him, so it was difficult. He was only dog reactive so we just avoided other places where dogs would be. He died fairly young of cancer.

We have a new dog now who we took to a fantastic dog trainer - funnily enough, they specialised in gun dogs, although our dog is not a gun dog, she is a border collie - and she’s very well trained without ever having to raise our voice, use cruel devices to force her to do what we want, or hit her.

The second trainer knew exactly who the first trainer was based on our description of what happened. And they came highly recommended!

Show quote history

I’m so sorry to hear you lost your boy so young. I’m also sorry if I brought back painful memories by my post.

Border collies are so lovely, my friend has two and they’re amazing dogs. I’m glad you found a decent trainer, it always annoys me that anyone can pass themself off as a ‘trainer’.

Neriah · 26/10/2023 23:15

Cosyblankets · 26/10/2023 22:58

I don't believe this happened and i don't believe you are a trainer... not one I'd use anyway. This is a wind up.

kind of agree....

Keepingthingsinteresting · 26/10/2023 23:18

spookyastic · 26/10/2023 21:42

@VeniVidiWeeWee i could accidentally boot her dogs in the head

And right there you lost any sympathy @spookyastic . No need to be a bitch.

murasaki · 26/10/2023 23:19

Other people in the pub probably didn't want your kid wandering around either. But I smell a wind up.

Original poster
spookyastic · 26/10/2023 23:19

@BellaAndDave
I take 7 out "picking up" it's not called a pack but a team, I can control them all and they work at the end of drives to pick up dead birds, they work together but not as a pack if you understand. They are all independent
Doesn't sound like you've ever been on a shoot or trialed gundogs.
Trialing you work one dog at a time. I have one or two specific trial dogs at any one time, never more as you can't use them for 'real work' as it can create bad habits such as hunting distance and stopping to flush. They are then retired to my picking up team

OP posts:
Maddy70 · 26/10/2023 23:22

The dogs were om leads your child was irritating fellow customers in the pub.
Believe me as cute as your child is to you. It's not to other people.

Original poster
spookyastic · 26/10/2023 23:25

@Maddy70 she was not irritating anybody
The dogs were, excessively barking. Lunging and growling

OP posts:
Deathbyfluffy · 26/10/2023 23:26

spookyastic · 26/10/2023 22:30

@MysticalMegx yeah we have working cockers, three of them and they are very easy going, these two were show types. I actually felt sorry for them as they were trying desperately not to look at her but occasionally they flew off the handle and took the whole pub by surprise. I could tell others were judging her and her dogs manners but she didn't seem to notice.
My daughter wasn't being rude or out of control, she actually normally loves dogs. I think it's ok to want to be able to WALK your mini human through a doorway without the risk of being savaged by out of control dogs without having to resort to picking her up!
Yes I suppose McDonald's could have been an option but equally the car or leaving her dogs at home was an option for this lady. Although I bet they've got " separation anxiety" so can't be left for 5 minutes

Dogs are much more appropriate for a pub than a toddler.
Nothing worse than trying to relax with a kid ‘exploring’ in the vicinity

BellaAndDave · 26/10/2023 23:26

spookyastic · 26/10/2023 23:19

@BellaAndDave
I take 7 out "picking up" it's not called a pack but a team, I can control them all and they work at the end of drives to pick up dead birds, they work together but not as a pack if you understand. They are all independent
Doesn't sound like you've ever been on a shoot or trialed gundogs.
Trialing you work one dog at a time. I have one or two specific trial dogs at any one time, never more as you can't use them for 'real work' as it can create bad habits such as hunting distance and stopping to flush. They are then retired to my picking up team

😂😂😂 you do you, I do me, you said you took 15 out? Concern yourself with controlling your child in a pub and being able to read a dogs behaviour. I replied to another poster not you. Also where did I say ‘pick up’? I don’t recall saying that.