To not feel that well off with a household income of £100k?

[phalendrina]

Live in London. Both of us are on £50k. We work 9am-7pm. Sometimes longer. Can’t afford to buy yet.

When I was younger I always thought a household on £100k would feel well off. We don’t. Obviously we are fortunate to afford food and rent etc, but we can’t afford long haul holidays or nice clothes.

YANBU. If you're doing an important job that needs to be done in a city, and they're not paying enough for you to buy a house in that city, something's wrong. This is really common. People are horribly underpaid.

We're trying to buy a house at the moment in an insalubrious part of south London. Mortgage will be £65k a year, deposit £150k, and we'll have to chuck £40k away in stamp duty. We're on a much higher income than OP and we still think it's tight and risky.

I feel you OP. I live in a commuter city just outside London and work in Moorgate. Joint income of £120k. We don’t feel well off due to transport costs, mortgage and general life in London. It was £8 a pint when I went out last week near Liverpool St!!!

One of the practical things I’ve done is stop using my American Express as a charge card and instead, only use my debit. There was a month of playing catch up but I’ve managed to save a little bit this month as my budget is easier to see.

And yes, this is obviously a middle-class problem! But if you can't discuss middle-class problems on Mumsnet, where on earth can you discuss them?

It's manageable but not a lot for a family in London. Our family income is under this but still considered way above average and yet we still struggle and far from comfortable. Mortgage on a flat (can't afford a house) childcare, paying off debt accrued over the years, running a car, swimming classes etc swe are frugal but still never save a penny. Any unexpected bills or rises really cause issues. We are far from comfortable. We can't move out of London, work is completely London centric, and salaries vastly lower elsewhere. This isn't a whinge it's just the truth that housing and childcare costs mean that what seems like a lot of money doesn't go as far as you'd think. It's a sad state of affairs that on 100k in London you can still be struggling.

We have no choices more like, as PP points out. To be fair though, I also will never have a clue how it feels like to have OP's level of income. Not even close. So I guess you're right...

I get that!!

While there's a lot of downsides to living in London, the lifestyle can be great!!

I worked for a then Big 4 accountancy/management consultancy. There was a food cost allowance if you worked more than a certain number of hours. If you worked late after 9pm, you could avail of a luxury car home. Christmas lunch was in The Savoy. Our conference was in Cambridge uni, and we had a summer ball in Leeds Castle in Kent. Royal premiere invitations.... Wondering what to do on a Saturday, and going up the West End...

I’d argue whether this is solely a middle class problem.

I know people who were the children of immigrants/in poverty who are on this salary through hard work, having that working class background means they really have to fend for themselves to succeed in that lifestyle shift. They don’t get support with bills, furniture, cars, deposits, student finance or benefit from having a well connected family. Their expenses are likely higher than someone their age who has been grandfathered in

I can see if people have high childcare costs (1 or 2 DC in ft nursery) and live in London then they might feel a squeeze on day to day living costs even on a household income of 100k.
...but there are some on MN who seem completely unaware of how many people are living in London well below that income! (And still have rent, bills, transport costs to cover)

Agree completely - if you have to do it all by yourself (we do) it is vastly more impossible than if you're bank-of-mum-and-dad funded.

Ahh the usual plop and run by an OP, designed to get all and sundry frothing on MN.

Well played OP.

That's nonsense. DC1 is also a public servant and living at home while saving a deposit for a house. They expect to be in a position to buy next summer, having taken financial advice.

We struggled a lot during the 18 years of childcare.

You are deluded. There's a whole generation out there of "woe is me" when really you are not that different to any other generation.

DH and I bought our first house aged 28 (when we also got our first - shared - car). DC1 is on track to buy their first house solo aged 27.

Don't give me that crap.

To be honest it’s no surprise that 100k feels relatively different in London than say Northen England or the rest of Europe.

I wouldn’t expect to feel well off on 100k in a city where most people are about earning the same and therefore where rent and other costs reflect that.

It’s the same with San Francisco. Used to live there for a few years and 100k would be well-off in most of the US but there it almost feel like the poverty line which is crazy to me but is less crazy when you know rent is about 3k so most people in their 30’s (!) live with roommates still paying over a grand, health insurance is equally high priced as is everything else. Buying there for most of the people is out of the question and what you get for 2 or 3 millions is frankly depressing for in comparison to what you could get for 500k in a nice UK area (or anywhere else in the US).

London is about the same. It has high salary but such high cost of living that salary vs quality of life seems disproportionate when you compare to how far that money could stretch anywhere else.

I earn a similar amount but made the choice to invest and live in a low-cost city/country where my money stretches A LOT further and where I can have a quality of life proportionate to my earnings. I absolutely cannot understand people who don’t use London as a stepping stone to maximize their earning potential to reinvest them in an area where their money stretches a lot further. I mean London is nice but plenty of other cities can offer many of what London has to offer (or more depending on what you are into/your ideal life) plus the room to breathe financially and actually enjoy the money you make (rather than seeing it swallowed by rent and bills).

If feeling well-off is important to you then I would try and look at ways to work in your field remotely if possible, so you could ideally keep your earnings but move to a place where you would actually get to see more of your paycheck.

Your choice of where you live is going to significantly impact your spending and how affordable you find things.

It's not ideal because obviously there should be parity everywhere and people should be able to live in reasonable distance of work and family etc but the reality is a lot of people will move in order to have a better quality of life and look for work that allows them that flexibility.

Our income in the NW is around £75k
We have an average mortgage. Don't go out much but DC do a lot of extra curricular etc which is a big expense.
State schools. Not new cars. Only buy clothes needed. Generally don't fret about money but really noticing costs increasing. Can't justify £5k+ for a foreign holiday never mind a more extravagant one.

A lot of people giving stick - here’s how £100k joint salary breaks down living in London. Yes we could save some cash not giving our child speech and language therapy but the NHS won’t work with them even though they are deemed moderate to severe delay with suspected autism because there is just such a backlog due to Covid. This is before holidays, alcohol and nights out or activities. We live in a 4 bed semi and not the greatest of areas. In 2023 I was sole earner, 2024 wife will be in work. I’ve assumed slightly higher for kids school uniforms because they young and constantly outgrowing at the moment, so could shave a few quid off there, but most kids clothes bought on vinted 2nd hand. This does not cover any spend on clothes for us. Change in mortgage is the impact of interest rates not a nice new house or overpayment. We’re scrapping Xbox Live and Disney+ next week. Does not include any savings for birthdays or Xmas gifts.

£100k salary in London seems a high number, and we are fortunate, the problem is - there’s actually little left after bills. We also keep £80 a month saved for kids clubs to cover the 6 week summer holiday where both of us are working as we have no family to look after kids while we work.

(looks like Mortgage and council tax may have got cut off the photo upload from the preview)

This

How did you manage to get a well paid job if you're not capable of basic money management?

Give your head a wobble

I don’t feel ‘well off’ but I also am not struggling at all.

I imagine a ridiculous amount is going on rent.

My friend is renting a smaller house than mine round the corner and her rent is double my mortgage at £3k that’s a pretty hefty chunk of cash.

Op, could you give us a breakdown of your costs?

Why do people always say this-
It doesn’t matter because you WONT GET that same income working the in rest of the country. Nowhere near!
DH earns 100k. Same job is 35k locally (Home Counties). Believe me we’ve looked and looked for years- same job 1/3 of wage outside London!!

Hold on just one second…
You bought a house when only your husband was employed? One wage?
You found somewhere to buy that was only 2.5 of a persons salary??
Just those 2 things alone are not possible for the vast majority in 2023???
So either you got extraordinarily lucky finding a bargain of a lifetime property, or buying a property was way easier than now, giving you a leg up for life.
Which was it?

🤷🏽‍♀️

To be fair I had an associate that claimed she earned 50k a month, she still lived with her parents with her child and never wore nice clothes, drove a banger and never had money. She spent a lot of it on weed though

Even with London prices, your take home after rent (assuming you don't live in a swanky penthouse or a mews in Knightsbridge) will be double my ENTIRE salary. What on earth are you doing with all your money???

i don’t know what your husband does but that isn’t typical! Typically the “London weighting” applied to a salary is insufficient to cover the higher cos of living (particularly housing) in London.

However, a huge factor is job availability outside London for many careers. There is absolutely no way I could have had my career living anywhere but London - yes, jobs exist outside London but a fraction of those that are in London - there’s a smattering of small firms across the country. So I would have either needed to commit to spending my whole career at the same organisation outside London or be prepared to move the family for a job (and what if DH with his similarly London-centric career?)

Admittedly a lot has changed in last few years with the advent of remote working.

But people with 1 or 2 Dcs will likely be getting benefits and in threads like this people rarely add the benefits to their annual income in a way that would be equivalent to gross tax salary.