To be really worried about the poor, disabled and elderly this winter?

[Namechangenhsworried]

I’ve just got in after spending nearly 14 hours in urgent care at my local hospital. During this time they didn’t even have the capacity to X-ray me. In the end I had to leave and fortunately what is a suspected broken hand and infection (the injury resulted in broken skin which has got infected) is manageable and I will be able to pay to have private treatment tomorrow after work.

I know much of the NHS isn’t in a good place but was shocked by just how bad it was. I have spent two days trying to get a response from a dr at 111 , my GP is off sick and it’s virtually impossible to see the locum. The queue for urgent care was out of the door and down the street (took an hour just to wait to get registered). The centre was standing room only with people saying they had been waiting for over 12 hours. Most of the staff looked exhausted , were running between patients and many irritable (one was angrily shouting at someone who was clearly unwell but it looked as though they had just snapped under the pressure). Staff complained of staff shortages, a lot of the equipment didn’t seem to work and on top of that they were having to try out a new records system which just seemed to be causing more problems.

I felt so sorry for everyone. I know things have been bad before but this just seemed so much worse than I’ve seen it before. It was like people had just given up /staff and patients were broken. And to make matters worse we are not even at peak flu/covid etc time. I should be able to get help from elsewhere but what about those who can’t? It’s so scary.

in the circumstances it doesn’t feel right that this lame government should be allowed to carry on whilst it is causing so much harm. But even if there is a change in leadership.- what then? Can this still be improved? We need change/to intervene before even more people suffer. It’s disgraceful that so many senior managers, private companies , the pharmaceutical industry, recruitment agencies and IT companies are making huge profits out of the NHS whilst so many of our most vulnerable can’t even get a basic service. It’s so sad and I just don’t know if it can be turned around.

I'm sorry you're injured and that you've spent 14 hours in urgent care without receiving the correct treatment. But your post is, upsettingly, a very standard experience, and reading through what you experienced I am not remotely surprised.
It's a complete and utter devastating mess.
I'm a senior registered nurse and I have worked in the NHS since 1993. It was very challenging when I started, and as new recruits we were all made very aware of the challenges, but as clinicians, we had a shared hope that the government would heavily invest and that things would improve. We all thought - 'we' being nurses, doctors, midwives - that if we told the government how much we were struggling, how exhausting and challenging conditions were and how under resourced the NHS had become that they would listen and invest.
We were naive.
The government didn't listen then, they haven't listened since, and they're not listening now.
I would say, after being on the frontline for 30 years, that there is a political agenda.
I feel very confident in saying that in another 30 years from now, there won't be an NHS.

I am very worried, particularly as I fall into two of those three categories.

I seriously fear ending up in hospital will result in my death or at least, significant worsening of my conditions. I have only just (in the last week) got rid of the pressure sore I got as a free gift on my last visit (under 24 hours, but most of it sat on a bed with no pressure relieving cushion, and in piss soaked clothing). That visit was MONTHS ago!

I am currently into week three of antibiotics for a dental infection that shows no signs of abating and only managed to track down the referral to the home visit team today and poke them into an actual appointment (ten days hence) vs a 'you're on the list we'll call you'. This is a major concern for anyone, but as a not very mobile wheelchair user with serious cardiac conditions, it's pretty fucking scary stuff.

I have the ability - just, some days - to advocate for myself. There are many who cannot. There are many who cannot face day long waits for treatment - and those who say 'well if you can't face it, you're clearly not ill enough' are ridiculous or incredibly unimaginative. The pain of being sat on the wrong surface (and I would as my chair wouldn't be taken in with me, and in any case I cannot get from a bed to my chair unaided) for even 10 minutes is incredible.

The bright lights, lack of air, lack of natural light, threat of infection from others, constant unending noise on top of the physical pain... it is unbearable and I genuinely would rather writhe in agony and potentially die at home than pretty much do the same at a hospital, where the chances are, no one will notice anyway! (Not hyperbole, last time they failed to notice a severe hypo!)

It is just awful. The country can’t take any more of this. We have to vote this government out as soon as possible.

Which hospital was this? Why did you leave after 14 hours - were you sent away? Could you have gone to a different hospital?

I think your experience is at the worse end of the spectrum op. Which part of the country are you? Im surprised you couldn't get a gp appointment with a broken hand. If you were well in yourself etc you'd have been low priority in a&e this time of year when there are people with critical breathing issues. Ive sadly had to spend a lot of time in a&e and my experience is that when you need to be there you are seen fast.

I broke my foot & went to minor injuries. It was a sunday but i was xrayed & sorted with a boot in 2 hours. I've had no problem getting gp appointments either, phone or in person, same day. My gp practise is very well run & had a brand new large building last year.

My DC has needed quite a bit of medical care (from referrals to various specialists to time in intensive care) and has generally been seen promptly & received good care.

I think perhaps chronic, expensive conditions are less well cared for

If you were in a state to leave out of choice after 14 hours in a&e you should never have been there.

The system only gets worse in my experience. My recent hospital admission involved a complaint to PALS.

I'm severely disabled, even with my care team transfering into hospital with me day & night the care from the trust varied from ward to ward. You name it they forgot it, repeatably.

I feel for the staff, but even more so the patients. My county has one major hospital, I can't just choose another & will be readmitted again.

The NHS needs more funding & less waste.

I agree that your experience is at the worst end of the spectrum, also that it can be a postcode lottery.

I have a serious heart condition and have had nothing but excellent care throughout. The last time I was in a&e I was there around five hours, this included blood tests, ECG, chest X-ray, and waiting for the blood results to come back.

My mum has had to have numerous hospital and dr’s appointments lately and they have been nothing but prompt, even things like non urgent scans she has had appointments through in weeks, even days in some instances.

The NHS needs a serious overhaul, and the reality is that no government is going to bring that about. I despise the tories as much as the next person, but anyone who thinks that labour will do any better is naive.

And the truth is that most people don’t want the kind of overhaul the nhs needs either.

The nhs was created at a time when there were far less diagnosed conditions, and far less expensive treatments. But everyone feels their treatment is as important as the next person’s when actually there needs to be a discussion over what non essential treatments should be covered. Plastic surgery, IVF to name but two are both things which IMO shouldn’t be funded by the NHS, but someone struggling with infertility isn’t going to agree, and so any change is going to be an uphill battle.

I’m really sorry to read about other peoples experiences. It’s so frustrating not being able to do anything : it’s like we all know there is a problem but don’t know what we can do to stop it or prevent it getting worse (almost like watching a car crash).

it was a central London hospital (not sure about naming it). I imagine Monday’s probably attract all the people who held out over the weekend (like me) but I’ve been to this hospital before with family members and it was never this bad. The staff at least used to seem proud to work there (it’s one of the famous ones) but tonight literally every staff member we met (and the patients ) just seemed thoroughly fed up and dejected.

I have so much sympathy for the staff and vulnerable patients (like the poster above) . I just don’t know how or if the problems can be fixed. Can it be turned around or is it too late? Such a huge mountain to climb and can it even be done? I feel like the NHS has to be improved but is that just because I want to believe in the idea of universal health care for all rather than because improvement is actually possible? Has too much damage been done?

I work in the NHS. It needs three things to happen.

Waste. There needs to be a complete overhaul of most systems and the government needs to buy the relevant trusts out of PFI contracts.

Staff. We need to massively massively invest in staff. And I don’t mean by international recruitment (which is the current plan) I mean by making healthcare careers attractive. And tbh the only way you are going to do that is money. People, and society, are changing, most people aren’t bothered about ‘helping’ other people any more and to make the shift work attractive we are going to have to pay people a shit ton of money.

And finally, as a PP said we need to have a serious look at what we want the NHS to be used for and tbh start limiting treatments. We cannot keep people alive indefinitely, we cannot cure everything and we need to stop spending obscene amounts of money on high tech treatments that cure tiny amounts of people.

It’s just a broken hand and skin infection - so painful but obviously not life threatening (I’m diabetic so a little more tricky but I know most people in a hospital would be much worse off). To note I went to urgent care rather than a&e.

I am lucky in that I can get treatment tomorrow elsewhere. However I know others couldn’t. I did try to get help from my GP and 111 rather than going to hospital but that wasn’t possible.

@AfterWeights what total and utter rubbish! I took my mum to A&E 3 weeks ago with a broken arm. We waited twelve hours to be seen - I couldn’t even get pain relief for her and she was in so much distress other patients in the waiting room were offering her their pain meds!

After 12 hours we were finally seen. The break was so bad they wanted to admit her but there were no beds and no surgeons. She was sent home with a temporary cast and waited nearly TWO weeks in excruciating pain for surgery.

Are you really suggesting because we waited that length of time that she could have just gone home?! Nonsense.

OP I totally agree with you. My mum is 83 and will fall again at some time - I’m terrified of taking her back 😢.

I think half your problem is you are going to the wrong place. Surely a broken bone needs A&E treatment, not urgent care or a GP. As you say these facilities aren't geared up to do x-rays. I'm not saying the situation isn't bad in the NHS but you have gone to the wrong place and then complained they can't x-Ray you 🤷‍♀️

You do not attend urgent care for an XRay, you go to A&E

And replace them with what? The NHS is even worse in Wales, under Labour management.

The NHS was set up in 1948 in a completely different era. There is only so much public money that can be put into the system.

I think it is no longer fit for purpose and I wish we could move towards a different model that better fits the needs of the 21st Century. Maybe a part public/ part private option like Australia (given that all our doctors and nurses seem to be leaving the UK for Australia, they must be doing something right).

A and E is the only place you go with a suspected break round here. I could of walked out of a and e with a broken wrist but I’d still of needed surgery on it. It’s not the ops fault there isn’t more efficient streaming of services.

I appreciate services are structured and delivered differently across the country. In my local hospital they have an urgent care department and a separate a&e. With a broken hand the website / written guidance is to go to urgent care. I waited nearly 14 hours to be registered and then assessed . I was then sent to another department for an X-ray for which there was another 7 hour wait and would then have to go back to urgent care for the results to be considered. At this point (gone 2 this morning) I thought I could bare standing up any longer , better to go home, get some rest and then get private treatment later today. So that is what I have done.

It’s great that others have been helped so quickly and effectively but it’s also clear that isn’t happening everywhere.

“Waste. There needs to be a complete overhaul of most systems and the government needs to buy the relevant trusts out of PFI contracts.

Staff. We need to massively massively invest in staff. And I don’t mean by international recruitment (which is the current plan) I mean by making healthcare careers attractive. And tbh the only way you are going to do that is money. People, and society, are changing, most people aren’t bothered about ‘helping’ other people any more and to make the shift work attractive we are going to have to pay people a shit ton of money.

And finally, as a PP said we need to have a serious look at what we want the NHS to be used for and tbh start limiting treatments. We cannot keep people alive indefinitely, we cannot cure everything and we need to stop spending obscene amounts of money on high tech treatments that cure tiny amounts of people.”

I agree with all of this. However, on point 3, in private health care systems people who pay more for their policies can get the high tech treatments for eg cancer?

There is an ideology at stake with the NHS where the population seems to cling on to the idea that everyone deserves the same healthcare. Maybe it has to be that everyone deserves the same basic healthcare and you opt to pay more via insurance if you want that?

The OP has already says he or she will go private in any event. So if you can do that, why not do it from the start? It almost feels like people are being pushed in to that in places like London. The choice is pay up or spend days wasted. We often just pay up now because it is less hours of work lost that way, even if it ends up costing us. However, interestingly, although we have a private health policy through work, it often does not actually cover all that much anyway so often we pay out of pocket. Which again, is entirely inefficient. Things like pregnancy/birth/long term conditions not being covered is very strange.

From what I understand, Labour do plan to significantly reform. It cannot go on like this. It is unproductive for people to waste so much time trying to access healthcare.
However, people need to stop thinking that having to pay for healthcare is a Tory thing. I do not think Labour has some money tree, so some form of further privatisation or people paying is inevitable, given the growing age and healthcare needs of the population.

I think the challenge with any sort of part pay / fully pay option coming in is that it will take decades for that money to filter through to actual change (better infrastructure, increased pay to entice people to train, people going through their training and qualifying etc) - so people will have to pay for the same treatment they receive now and hopefully understand they are investing in the future.....but I think people will be very unhappy!

Guidance I was given on urgent care attached.

Ah that Tory nugget of the Welsh NHS, let's ignore the monstrous unfairness of the Barnett formula or the fact that the Welsh NHS also has to deal with a lot of English retirees, but we'll keep enjoying our free prescriptions and our free hospital parking thanks 😇

This is absolute nonsense, almost laughable.

The Welsh NHS has to exist under the Tory UK government.

What we need is a change of UK government.

It isn't just the NHS that is broken. Deliberately broken. Look at dentistry, schools, DVLA, passports, border force, police, prisons, councils, housing...

We need a general election. It's infuriating we are powerless to secure one!

I think provision varies widely.

My experience hasn't been like that at all. My treatment following BC has been faultless. Appointments have been to schedule, staff are polite, calm and cheerful. Our treatment unit is being refurbished in the new year.

Local A&E provision is reasonable although we've only used it once in the last couple of years. Our GP is responsive, tele-appointments are bookable and face-to-face if really necessary.

I've had one bad experience in the last couple of years, trying to get help for a dc who had been hurt at school. The first place refused point-blank to help (and I reported them). The second place helped within about 10 minutes despite not having an appointment. We're in Hampshire.