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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Any solicitors or social workers?

27 replies

dillydal · 23/10/2023 06:44

I've just found out my son's father has made another application to the family court. He began making applications in 2018 when our son was three years old after having barely any contact prior. Contact was gradually increased and now has a regular pattern of EOW and one night in the week. Nevertheless, he makes applications to the court every few months with spurious allegations that I'm relocating abroad, that I shouldn't have our son's passport, that he wants amendments to the court order around our son's schooling. All very ridiculous, non-issues which aren't really the point. I think the point is about dragging me through this traumatic process as a means of control and abuse.

I got a two year barring order given the number of applications and the toll on my mental health. I was off work with stress for several months. During this time, he made four further applications all of which did not progress because of the barring order in place. This has now expired and he's made another one.

I can't cope. I've had a letter from Cafcass. I want to name this as abuse but I'm scared Cafcass nor the judge will not be impressed with this. Are there any solicitors or family court advisers / social workers who can tell me how to frame this or reassure me that professionals do get it and it looks exactly like what it is.

OP posts:
Paltrypam · 23/10/2023 07:18

Thing is - he could just argue it’s a father desperately trying to increase contact with his son

Blanca87 · 23/10/2023 07:20

But from what op has said it doesn’t sound like he is asking to increase more time with child he is making allegations against her.

bellac11 · 23/10/2023 07:24

What is the current application for?
Are you able to have legal representation or do you represent yourself?

Its easy for me to say 'dont worry' as I know you will worry but the reality is that his behaviour will show itself to the court and CAFCASS for what it is, spurious and vexatious. I would just go through the process and raise that another barring order is due if he is going to continue the minute it runs out

Are there any changes needed to the current arrangements? Is your son ready for more time with dad? And even if the arrangements need to change, you dont need orders each time, parents should be able to come to decisions together (if dad isnt unworkable), so you need to set out that changes will come as your child grows up, as is natural.

Try to take faith in the fact that the court recognised what he is doing before and will again

ApolloandDaphne · 23/10/2023 07:31

What is this new application for?

dillydal · 23/10/2023 08:14

Thanks for your replies. I've got to trust the process. He's asked for a different judge than the one who has overseen our previous cases because he granted the barring order and my son's father says this is evidence of bias. I really want the same judge because he has oversight of our case and the history.

He wants to split the summer holidays three weeks / three weeks. I've said there's no reason for this, particularly when he's so young. There's no reason for it really, it's suspect it's more that he can't bear someone not acquiescing to his every demand immediately.

OP posts:
ApolloandDaphne · 23/10/2023 08:22

Looking at the dates it seems your DS is around 8 now? Putting everything else to one side I'm not sure that splitting the summer holidays 3/3 seems a bad idea given they now have a routine pattern of contact. Does your DS enjoy his time with his DF?

Paltrypam · 23/10/2023 09:42

Blanca87 · 23/10/2023 07:20

But from what op has said it doesn’t sound like he is asking to increase more time with child he is making allegations against her.

In that case he could argue a concerned father

Paltrypam · 23/10/2023 09:44

dillydal · 23/10/2023 08:14

Thanks for your replies. I've got to trust the process. He's asked for a different judge than the one who has overseen our previous cases because he granted the barring order and my son's father says this is evidence of bias. I really want the same judge because he has oversight of our case and the history.

He wants to split the summer holidays three weeks / three weeks. I've said there's no reason for this, particularly when he's so young. There's no reason for it really, it's suspect it's more that he can't bear someone not acquiescing to his every demand immediately.

You have argued there is “no reason for this”

for his father wanting to spend half of the summer holidays with his son

OP - does this not seem reasonable to you?

Paltrypam · 23/10/2023 09:47

What is specified in the barring order?

Densol57 · 23/10/2023 09:47

You need to be sure you are both not getting into a pattern of saying “no” just for the sake of it, and constantly ending up in court.
Look at his applications fairly, and think of what your SON wants. Is 3 and 3 weeks a good thing ? A nice long holiday ? A break for you to have a nice long holiday ? Help with child care over the 6 weeks.

Dont just reject things for the sake of it, as you are only using your son as a pawn in a game then

MrsPinkCock · 23/10/2023 09:48

It sounds like the courts have already earmarked him as vexatious which will likely go in your favour. Can you afford a lawyer? Are you entitled to legal aid as result of DV? They’d be best placed to advise on strategy knowing the full history.

dillydal · 23/10/2023 09:50

I'm not just rejecting things out of hand. We've always done a variation of two weeks two weeks one week one week. My son turned 7 at the end of August. I don't think anyone would want to be away from their child for three weeks. Those saying that he's a concerned father are missing the point. His behaviour has never been about spending time with his child - it's about domination and control

OP posts:
Paltrypam · 23/10/2023 09:51

Of course I wouldn’t want to be away from my child for 3 weeks! Would be awful. But it is not uncommon for them to be split in this way.

does your child enjoy being with his father? If you can think about that objectively

Delphigirl · 23/10/2023 09:54

Put in a counter application for the barring order to be renewed for a further 2 years and ask for it to be listed to be heard at the same time. Then when he fails to get a change from 2+1 weeks to 3 weeks you can argue that this is just the sort of merit less, stressful and expensive application the previous barring order had been so effective in preventing.

Willyoujustbequiet · 23/10/2023 09:54

Paltrypam · 23/10/2023 09:44

You have argued there is “no reason for this”

for his father wanting to spend half of the summer holidays with his son

OP - does this not seem reasonable to you?

That won't be the intention behind it though.

The intention behind it will be to try and cause the OP the maximum distress. Its an attempt to control and in many cases a continuation of abuse that has been suffered during the relationship.

Some judges recognise this. Hence why the OP was able to obtain a barring order.

Don't kid yourself it's about the child.

dillydal · 23/10/2023 09:55

It's normal to take someone to court every time you make a demand and someone else has a different opinion. He tells me what's going to happen and if I do anything other than say yes immediately, if I try and engage in discussion or compromise, there's an immediate application to the court. That's not normal behaviour.

OP posts:
TheFireflies · 23/10/2023 09:55

Paltrypam · 23/10/2023 09:42

In that case he could argue a concerned father

Concerned fathers don’t generally get barring orders.

Do you have any way of communicating outside of court, as mostly these small variations should be discussed or mediated before just jumping straight to court proceedings. However, if you take the position of saying no because there’s no reason to change, I guess you’d be leaving him with no alternative in the case of wanting more holiday time (which is quite usual).

While three weeks in a row seems a lot, equal share of school holidays is quite a normal arrangement for a child of your son’s age. Unless there’s something you’re not telling us about their relationship, perhaps you could come to a quick agreement and the court proceedings would then conclude at the first hearing.

You could put it on record that you are concerned about the court being used to micromanage and ask them to consider a further barring order, but you would need to be open to reasonable communication about arrangements in that case, and I doubt they’d make another barring order this time as your ex is not asking for something unreasonable.

dillydal · 23/10/2023 09:57

Delphigirl · 23/10/2023 09:54

Put in a counter application for the barring order to be renewed for a further 2 years and ask for it to be listed to be heard at the same time. Then when he fails to get a change from 2+1 weeks to 3 weeks you can argue that this is just the sort of merit less, stressful and expensive application the previous barring order had been so effective in preventing.

This is really helpful - thank you for this advice.

OP posts:
TheFireflies · 23/10/2023 09:57

dillydal · 23/10/2023 09:50

I'm not just rejecting things out of hand. We've always done a variation of two weeks two weeks one week one week. My son turned 7 at the end of August. I don't think anyone would want to be away from their child for three weeks. Those saying that he's a concerned father are missing the point. His behaviour has never been about spending time with his child - it's about domination and control

Sorry, I just saw you already have a pattern of equal time.

In that case I’d be asking for his application to be dismissed and apply for an extension of the barring order.

HakunaMatiłda · 23/10/2023 09:57

dillydal · 23/10/2023 09:50

I'm not just rejecting things out of hand. We've always done a variation of two weeks two weeks one week one week. My son turned 7 at the end of August. I don't think anyone would want to be away from their child for three weeks. Those saying that he's a concerned father are missing the point. His behaviour has never been about spending time with his child - it's about domination and control

Those saying that he's a concerned father are missing the point.

We’re not missing the point. This is what he needs the court to believe, and it’s not impossible with his request.

FWIW I can see this being for domination and control, but he can angle it as being best for the child.

Paltrypam · 23/10/2023 09:58

Op is there any reason why you’re avoiding the questions about whether your son is happy with and wants to spend time with his father?

Littlesunshine22 · 23/10/2023 10:53

Paltrypam · 23/10/2023 09:58

Op is there any reason why you’re avoiding the questions about whether your son is happy with and wants to spend time with his father?

Is there any reason you're so obnoxious to strangers on the internet?

OP said there was a barring order. There's a pretty high bar to meet, they don't give them out often.

Is the point not that someone can't engage in normal compromise and sees the family court as a way to beat someone in to submission?

I've been there. It's horrendous.

Paltrypam · 23/10/2023 11:22

So you don’t see the son’s stance as at all relevant to the discussion

ok

bellac11 · 24/10/2023 22:12

Ultimately contact is about the child's rights, so even if dad is coming from a position of domination and control, the outcome and question is 'does it meet the childs needs'.

The problem here is that the court wont like the dad keep making applications because he refuses to engage with the OP reasonably about planning, thats why he got the barring order, because as OP says, he is trying to micromanage a natural process between two parents via the courts and thats not appropriate.

dillydal · 24/10/2023 23:17

Paltrypam · 23/10/2023 11:22

So you don’t see the son’s stance as at all relevant to the discussion

ok

That's not the point though. It's not about my son's stance. It's about a person who makes repeat applications to the family court without reason.

OP posts:
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