DH’s become a bully- wwyd?

[Flumpmallow]

and it’s because of his job

apologies double posting and posting here for traffic as I’m feeling quite low.

Dh has a well paid job, he’s the major earner (for now but I’ve had a massive pay increase to kick in from the new year). This job has been the worst thing that’s ever happened to him. Yes it’s been more money, but slowly but surely his demeanour has changed. He’s started getting picked on and frankly bullied at work by someone in senior leadership. Long story less long, this person was peer to peer, and this person trod on DHs back, to credit for his project and secured the snr role and now seems to be out for blood. He was denied bereavement time off and basically had a bit of breakdown. Was signed off and has been having therapy.

He’s back to work now and is handling work better BUT at home, he’s just like like a bubbling pot, ready to boil over. Very short tempered, takes any commenting on his behaviour as like a personal attack and sometimes he’s just so highly strung he’s unpleasant.

when he’s in a good place, we talk about how he’s acting and how it’s ruining our marriage and is unfair to the kids. But I just don’t really know what to do. I also work full time so whilst I understand he’s in such a crap situation I do need him to an adult in the household. He does a fair amount around the house but he’s perceiving it as him doing everything. But it’s not the case, due to how much scrutiny he’s under at work, any time the kids have been ill or sent home from school, ive dealt with it. We split the meals and he does light cleaning like washing up and tidying but it’s me that does the full clean. But he thinks I do nothing.

after a few weeks of calm, youngest had to be picked up from nursery today and I’ve used all my leave so he had to do it and he’s just been on edge since and then eldest’s post school tantrum has pushed him over the edge and he’s back to being a rattle snake

does anyone have any words of wisdom?

This . He needs to find another job . His self esteem has been broken and he's at the mercy of a narcissist at work . Once they get their claws in the don't let go until they have destroyed you and got you out of the door . Just my experience. He's bringing work home with him in his head so he's still at work . He needs to get out even if it's temporarily for a lesser position. This is killing your marriage.

Hmm ok, so he doesn't want them to win, he doesn't want to lower himself. That is likely to be related to an entrenched battle position he's found himself in, and isn't very helpful. But does give you a bit more power to demand that he manages his behaviour at home better, as there are choices he could take that would change this situation, that he's choosing not to take.

Having been in and seen these situations a few times, if he hasn't got workplace / management support about this, then it's not likely to turn out well for him. They will have seen what is happening and backed the other guy. It's awful and unfair, but life can be like that. Most people are just so relieved once they are out if it and are pleased to put it behind them - you think you'd still obsess about it but you don't.

The alternative is more of this dragging on forever, and / or a painful grievance also dragging on. Both of which will not be helpful for his mental health. Unless he's holding out for a big constructive dismissal payout? But he can pursue that while working in Waitrose.

On a practical note, it is generally easier to find nursery places later than to begin with, as people move around. It might be worth asking nursery if they do have older kids places, just to understand the lay of the land.

I would however keep banging on about an alternative 'good' outcome, whereby he leaves the job, enjoys some temporary contracting / Waitrose as respite and allows himself to recover and enjoy his equilibrium and family happiness recovering, then throws himself into his career again (if that's what he wants) when he's less under the cosh, and therefore better able to sell himself. Possibly while pursuing a grievance re constructive dismissal. I'd by trying to sell this as a positive pathway. There would be a space for you in there to talk about the negative impact this has had in you and family life, and ways to manage things differently if anything like this happens again.

A coworker of mine went through this- after bringing in 1/3 of the total sales of a team of 15, as well as doing his actual job, bringing in the project on time and on budget he got a severe dressing down. This was having watched other people take the credit for his work. He was offered a more highly paid job shortly after and went. Life is too short. He and document everything OP. This is a limited time behavioural issue caused by stress.

I feel for both of you but especially your DH.

Please be careful here because he is a prime candidate for male suicide.

No one thinks it’s bad enough for that to happen.. until it does.

I don’t say it to scaremonger but I say it as a genuine concern. His back is against the wall. He can’t live due to finances, whilst he stays his marriage/family life are being threatened.
It would be easy for him to see suicide as the ‘only way’ out.

I say this as someone who works within the field and a few families have said ‘he hated his job but he was looking for another’ or ‘it wasn’t that bad, not enough to do this, why didn’t they just quit?’

There can be hardly any warning signs beforehand. Just a particularly bad day at work and they come home and think ‘I can’t take it anymore. There’s no way out’. That moment of madness then makes them make an irreversible outcome.

It’s heartbreaking and way too common.

In all honesty I would rather sell my house, go through financial ruin and be homeless than have my husband go through it. It sounds dramatic but it’s the biggest cause of death in men.

Yes I do also agree re the suicide risk. You sound like a financially sensible family, so I expect you have life insurance. That can also factor into the 'they'd be better off without me' thinking.

@Sugarcoatedcandycane I agree with your words about suicide risk. I had the same thought, but didn't mention it in my posts, but should have done. I hope it isn't the case, here but 👏 for brininging it up.

@Fahbeep @housingplanningquestion

It’s terrible to say isn’t it hit all the red flags are there.

I can see how he could think that he’s causing damage to his family’s wellbeing with his behaviour, he’s hated at work, he can’t handle another day/week/month/year of it. There are no new jobs on the horizon. He will financially ruin his family by leaving work. No escape. Therefore there is only one way out and ‘they’d all be better off without me’. If there’s a life insurance policy then it’s a full house to reach that outcome.

I only say it as it so eerily similar to many cases I’ve dealt with.

You always assume you’d know how bad it was way before it ever got to that point so don’t factor in that risk. Then suddenly it happens.

I really hope OP and her husband get the help and support they need asap. I think it could become a lot more sinister fairly quickly.

Exactly what I wanted to say, he should send an immediate email with ‘as per our conversation of (date) (time)…’ and summarise everything that has been said. If he wants to deny it in writing then your dh has written confirmation that the instructions/criticisms have been rescinded. If he chooses not to reply/deny, that’s a tacit agreement that the email is a correct summary of what took place.

This is a terrible situation that he is in. He's being bullied at work. His performance at home as a dad and husband is poor. You're not going to separate or kick him out, so this is not an option in how to live through this very rocky patch.

You are going to have to step up and manage the situation at home, unfortunately, due to the "better or worse" clause that you promised, because right now, he cannot.

Just like a child who explodes when they get in from school, you're going to have to build in ways to make home a place where he can escape from the hellhole that is his work. Change clothes and do something nice as soon as he gets home, like a walk, some cooking to music. Watch out for alcohol consumption and online gambling.

You might find that his being an arsehole at home has now created a dichotomy between you and him as nice and bad parent, which just has a cumulative effect. If you have got into this cycle as a family, you need a re-set. Encourage the kids not to pick rows with him and to have positive interactions. As suggested by PP, when he is an arsehole, walk off and leave him to it.

I would advise you to look into your finances. Can you actually downsize, move closer to schools/family/transport links if he has to take a low paid job? Are childcare costs something that will become less and less? You will both feel better knowing that you have a plan to survive financially.

I also think that you could do more about HR/ACAS/solicitor. 18 months is a long notice period, does he work for the government?

The eldest is 5 and the youngest is 1 they aren’t mature enough to walk on egg shells.

18 months is the work process for letting someone go who has been in the company for x period of time, aside from gross misconduct of course

thanks for everyone who said about suicide, i worried about that at points too, luckily he has weekly therapy sessions which do seem to help especially with work confidence but not his anger at home, he’s also on medication for it but I’m not sure the extent to which that’s helping

OP, are you getting any support? Has he told his parents, or your parents what is happening. The instinct can be to hide it, but if they know, they can support.

1 and 5 does make things very difficult. You are in a tough spot.

Is an 18 month notice period actually enforceable: That's shockingly long.

1. have a chat with ACAS about the bullying and discrimination the advise is free.
2. go and see an independent financial adviser to discuss the mortgage and look at an over view of your finances
3. consider other ways of making income eg renting your drive way or garage out, taking a lodger/ foreign students so that he could take a less stressful job
4. do an entitled2 benefit calculation with scenario of him being off sick or not working so you can see exactly how you would be placed were that to happen.
5. if he gets too stressed he might end up being too ill to work anyway so although I get why he doesn't want the other guy to win it has to be better than cracking under the strain.
6. have a look at his after work routine. Could he go to the gym or a drink with a friend to decompress before bringing the stress home?
7. you say you cant afford a cleaner but have you looked at costs for say 1 morning a week or a monthly clean?

So you’ve told him how bloody awful his behaviour is and told him to stop, yes?

And don't worry about the 18 month notice period. He'll be able to detach mentally and not take seriously his old manager if he is seeing out time. And if they do enforce it, he may get lucky with garden leave, under which he'd be paid to be at home with you and kids!

I think of you're sticking by hin you need to decide wat you and the kids need to feel safe.

Perhaps agree he does minimal house work but does 50% sick cover and when he comes home he goes out if the shared space until he can cope with being around family? Or, more harshly, if he cant cope he needs to be signed off again.

I think most people accept their partner might be shit for a while while going through a big change, but both need to know that it can only be temporary and the needs to be an exit strategy. If he cant find a way to improve his mood and support at home by xmas, by getting a new job or resolving the issues at work, then he needs to take time off again or move out so you and the kids can live in a calm home.

This sounds like useful practical advice.

It’s hard to defend yourself when you’re under constant attack, and DH probably feels he’s too busy fighting off crocodiles to drain the swamp. But he needs to take a deep breath and work out a plan of action using tips like PP’s.

Also, his union and HR should be proactive, as this clearly is a case of bullying.

Someone I knew in a similar situation took it to, I think, a tribunal and got a useful sum in compensation. (Sorry to be vague — I didn’t know the details, just that it was specifically on the grounds of bullying. )

Best of luck. It’s a dreadful situation for you all.

Some good suggestions here re the godawful work situation. Once he has a strategy and starts taking action that will ameliorate a small amount of the stress.

Otherwise : have a bit of a brainstorm - what CAN you junk for now to give yourselves some more slack re money or time or stress? Just for now. Even if you clawback a few percent it'll help. Even dumbass stuff like paper plates for lazy clearup. Anything.

Is there a quiet time where you can have a chat and say, this isn't you, this isn't the person you want to be, I believe the behaviour is a stress reaction rather than an inherent attack of arseholeitis, so let's come up with a better way of letting it all out that's NOT taking it out in the family you love. Send him out for a walk, or a five minute lie down, or a scream in the garage, a weep in the bathroom.

And if he slips, "I know it's an awful situation and it's not of your making, but it doesn't help to take it out on me, you're better than that. Go and let it out somewhere else, and then you can vent at me for ten minutes later this evening."

His parents wouldn’t care, they are very much the type that they only care about what you can do for them. Mine can offer limited support as they are much of a 70s work frame of mind that he can be dismissed on the spot so they catastrophiise which makes it worse for him

The 18 months is the process to dismiss someone, or to in effect manage them out, the company has policies, so it has to be 6 months on the PIP, then a formal meeting with hr where a more formalised management meeting is in place and that’s a 6 months process and then there’s 2 more 3 month steps.

to hand his notice in and leave it’s 4 months

He’s spoken to acas and found them useless, dh used to be an ifa in a past life so mortgage wise and that we are in the best place we can be (given the circumstances) but there is room to belt tighten.
we don’t have the space for anyone living here.
i absolutely want him to see his friends more, i think he’s embarrassed about the situation more. I was contemplating messaging them, and asking them to set something up as he won’t take the first step.

ill look into a monthly cleaner, anyone know how much ball park they might cost?

This is really good advice! Thank you