Results like these at a general election would mean Tory annihilation

[noblegiraffe]

Says a BBC headline this morning.

Anyone else stockpiling popcorn?

Must admit it would be quite funny if the Conservatives couldn't even muster enough seats to be the official Opposition party.

In constituencies as solidly Tory as those, you can't really extrapolate the turnout to all parties. The result mostly shows that even their own loyal supporters can't bear to vote for them.

I cannot wait for a GE. And I think, given the shocking state of productivity in this country, that a little proactivity from Labour could really improve things no end, and give them more financial wiggle room.

@TizerorFizz

I fully agree with your post and thought you might like the following quote from Alexander Fraser Tytler and also a graphic of the so called "Tytler Cycle".

"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy"

It could go either way - the Tory voters could take this as a wake-up call and rally round in the GE. That is the biggest worry. But hopefully most will simply not vote, recognising the sheer awfulness of the current government, but feeling unable to vote for any other party.

The whole system needs re-jigging.

This.
The only time I have ever voted Labour was when Tony Blair was leader. Never again. There is nothing about the desperately wooden IKEA Starmer that would make me vote Labour in a general election. Would I vote against the ruling party in a by election ? Absolutely. Does the result mean anything in a wider election ? No.

Well they didn’t vote for Corbyn did they? Huge cost to the majority meant the minority didn’t get what they wanted. Those policies also ensured more Conservative rule. Starmer might just understand cost to the majority.

That was a response to @1dayatatime

You usually get low turnout with byelections, although I think you're right that there's a lot of apathy.

I'm not sure how they are supposed to rally, to be honest, or what difference it would make. They need to show some results....and that is not looking likely right now.

Good!

Labour have also pledged to investigate the various Covid scandals and go after the money that was disappeared on contracts for mates and the Dido Harding mess...I do hope that ends up in people seeing the inside of a jail.

I think the popcorn will come handy for quite some time.

The Johnson/Truss/Sunak governments are far right, Trump-like dangerous, lying and corrupt governments.

This was not even the Tories of old but something even more vicious and incompetent. Johnson started the rot. The others continued the slide into dangerous territories.

So I think it as gone way beyond whether you are a Labour or Tory supporter and it is about voting to stop the decline and the destruction that was done to our country.

I do hope people will vote Labour or Lid Dem strategically to give us a chance to turn into a decent democracy again.

Same. The only place I see Labour as a foregone conclusion is MN. A bit like remain. People are seriously pissed off with all parties. The Tories are not the party of the workers. They’ve raised the basic rate tax threshold, increased welfare in line with inflation but hammered people on PAYE. They have got us into such a state that we have a majority of state dependents now. All they’ve done is piss off the people paying for it all. Whilst having to borrow colossal amounts as the state outgoings are too high. Amazing. Highest tax on record and highest state dependency ever.

Problem is, the rot was started with tax credits which was Labour. The new invention of Labour is shit. They are only popular because the Tories are worse right now. However, people don’t necessarily want them in. This is different from the Blair years. Blair appealed to the majority, the workers and those that didn’t. He knew we needed people working, to pay tax, to fund the state. Keir hasn’t quite cottoned onto this yet. Good luck paying for it all.

Complacency and not listening from the far left could see another Brexit moment. I think it will be a hung parliament.

Yep swings and roundabouts. The only time there was a difference was with a hung parliament and Nick Clegg who seemed ineffectual.

Yeah, the Tories are beyond rallying now and are fucked regardless. Just probably not quite as fucked nationally as these particular results indicate, I think the smart money is still on them to get over 100 seats.

Nothing is a done deal. I mean people voted in the likes of Peter Bone, Dorries, Braverman. Priti Patel, Charlie Elphicke etc etc in the first place.

I know Matt Hancock is standing down, & lost the whip, but why on earth is he getting paid taxpayers money as an MP to piss about on reality TV?!

The sooner they're out, the better.

Fingers crossed

We lack a process to remove him. Doesn't meet the criteria for recall petitions.

Because Thatcher got rid of our manufacturing base
Because the coalition imposed unecessary austerity starting the run down of public services.
Because this corrupt government wasted a fuck ton of money
Because Liz Truss fucked over mortgage holders.
Because we have no decent health care, no investment in education, transport, training and a shit low wage economy instigated by Thatcher.

This is why this contry is in decline.

We won't know anything until the manifesto is published, and even then, I think it unlikely that it would include a significant degree of detail on complex benefit legislation.

I also think the manifesto might not include anything significant about benefits, for fear it might put off voters who think that people on benefits are all sitting around watching their widescreen tv's all day on the taxpayers' dime.

Having said all that, within the Labour party there is a perception that they will, at the very least, uprate local housing allowances so that people don't have massive shortfalls between the housing costs element in UC and the actual rents people pay, which would be a big help to a lot of people.

How ridiculous blaming Thatcher - she hasn't been in for 33 years! And the 90s were a golden time - the tory govt in 1997 left a great economy for Labour. Instead of investing it in infrastructure and long term projects they wasted it on short-term buying peoples votes- at one time we were receiving "benefits" aka tax credits even though my husband was on £50k. This has been carried on by the tories which is why now we have record spending and taxes and nothing to show due it. @Princessandthepea0 has got it about right.

Thatcher started the rot.

We have no manufacturing base as she destroyed it.
’There’s no such thing as society’

Just because she was in power 33 years ago doesn’t absolve her of blame. It’s called history. She was the trigger.

And obviuosly the Tories invest so much in infra structure don’t they?🙄Fantastic nhs, transport and education system we have at the moment. No poverty at all🤨

Before anyone thinks that this is a Labour done deal, look back at what happened to Kinnock. There will be the usual "yes buts" (this is different because or look at the swing or whatever) but anyone who thinks this is nailed on for Labour needs to realise that Tory voters turn our in general elections but they "use" local ones and abstain to give the sitting candidate or the party a kicking.

Many people will hold their noses and vote Conservative in the general election and many more of them will turn out than for other parties. because its an age thing and they always do.

Yes, I think Labour will win the next election too but Sirky needs to be careful not to do a Gordon "dreadful woman" Brown moment or it will make the whole thing a lot closer and possibly hung.

Mumsnet is not a good barometer of how the country votes I am afraid. So even if 99% of the people on this thread are shouting "tories out" it doesnt in the real world mean that they will be.

Labour needs basically to keep calm, develop and communicate its policies clearly but at the end of the day not fuck up. Its theirs to lose just as it was for Kinnock and Brown. they have form.

mummymeister have you not looked at the polls in recent weeks? The Tories are finished. Sunak should call a GE, otherwise we have months more of this zombie government lurching fron disaster to disaster. 🧟‍♂️ 🧟‍♂️ 🧟‍♂️

I'm not a fan of spoiled ballots or not voting. Women died to give us voting rights.

You have got to be in it to win it.

Read the manifestos when they come out and vote for the manifesto that you trust will be delivered - or at least attempted to.

If you dont like the current shitshow and it continues - don't blame others when you didn't vote.