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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that the CMS are fucking useless?

73 replies

Inthefuckitbucket · 18/10/2023 19:07

why is it that yet again, women (and yes, the majority are women) are let down by feckless, useless men and the Child Maintenance Service seem to actively facilitate this through their total incompetence and ‘can’t be arsed’ attitude?

my son’s father has not paid a penny to his living costs for a long time now. He has blocked me on everything and so I can’t even communicate with him. I finally (finally) put in a claim with the Child Maintenance Service and they came back very quickly saying they were unable to find him. I called them today and was told that without his correct address, they can’t do anything. Yet they have his correct full name, date of birth, correct previous addresses, employer details and national insurance number.

surely this can’t be the case? Can it?? Would I be unreasonable to contact my local MP? Do you think it would make a difference?

OP posts:
Sandalholidays12 · 18/10/2023 21:06

@Consideringachange2023 our GOV is only interested when it benefits them as they don't tax the CMS they couldn't give a flying F**K. They have been around since 1991 went bust and then made a come back in 1993... nothing much has progressed since 1993 in fact it's worse you now pay £20 set up fee!

glossypeach · 18/10/2023 21:06

They’re useless. My ex is self employed on a decent wage (subcontracted). He’s technically employed but because it still falls under self employment he claims to earn less than £7 a week which in child maintenance terms, means he doesn’t have to pay a penny. After going through many appeals they’re no use and think an adult can live off of no income and no benefits? I’ve finally got to the tribunal stage and whilst awaiting it, they have obviously noticed he’s lied about his income and requested for him to send all bank statements, wage slips, tenancy agreement - literally anything involving finances. Yet I’m still getting nowhere as he’s refusing to send this evidence in and somehow they’re not forcing him nor gaining access themselves so I’m back to square one. Utterly pathetic, and even if they calculated the ‘correct’ amount, that wouldn’t even cover childcare costs or true costs of raising a child so what is even the point.

FeelSoDown · 18/10/2023 21:08

They can find my ex but I still don’t get any maintenance 🤷‍♀️ 6 years now…

fearfulexchange · 18/10/2023 21:09

BibbleandSqwauk · 18/10/2023 19:15

On a serious note, a huge number of the issues would be sorted out if it became a branch of HMRC with access to all tax records, and any non payment was covered by the government and taken from any future state pension. It should be inescapable. There should also be a minimum level above the £7 PW that NRPs on benefits are asked for. A realistic figure that actually represents a meaningful contribution.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Sandalholidays12 · 18/10/2023 21:11

@glossypeach I hope you don't mind me asking, I'm in similar situation myself. Is it a court tribunal stage you have got to? Was it a judge that requested your ex needed to send his bank statements and all the rest?

Original poster
Inthefuckitbucket · 18/10/2023 21:15

The very nature of having a name, date of birth and accurate NI number causes absolute criminal chaos in the wrong hands, because it is so easy to go from there to garner the minutiae of a person’s existence. Yet CMS either can’t be bothered to pull their finger out of their arse, or are actively prohibiting children’s very basic rights. And that’s just the beginning of it. Your comments here make me despair. I’m so sorry we’ve all had to experience such total incompetence and a complete lack of integrity.

OP posts:
RandomUser82 · 18/10/2023 21:23

I've been waiting since the 23rd July to find out why my ex is only paying me £30 a month instead of the £160 he is meant to. Apparently the amount hmrc gave them of what he earned last year was wrong (how?!) So they are waiting for evidence of his actual pay (self employed)

However with SE they don't have to tell cms is they are earning more (he was earning 300% more han the year before) so once the annual review was done he's just said he is earning less now so can't pay. Its totally not fair. He can earn extra one year but not pay then just claim he's earning less to not pay again!

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 18/10/2023 21:24

TheSpikySpinosaurus · 18/10/2023 19:11

I sympathise completely. The CMS needs to have the power to take money at source from deadbeat dads who don't want to pay for their Dc.

Do you know anyone who has your ex's address? Could you find it out? Are you in touch with his parents?

They do have that power. They just don’t use it.

coxesorangepippin · 18/10/2023 21:26

In the US there's a ton of stuff you can't do unless you've paid alimony

Now the US has its faults, but this ain't one of them

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 18/10/2023 21:26

Get your MP involved. Some good can give them a kick and get them moving.

CMS have ways of being able to do things. You just need to get a case worker that can be arsed doing them

PermanentTemporary · 18/10/2023 21:34

I really hope you do write to your MP. They must get hundreds of CMS cases and maybe in the end someone will try to do something?

Snuppeline · 18/10/2023 21:38

I don’t understand why the issue of non-paying nonresident parents aren’t a huge equalities issue and top of the political agenda. Why isn’t Mumsnet campaigning . This is a leading cause of poverty and disproportionately affects women (and their children). Like pp said Europe and US is way ahead on the issue. In my case I have the misfortune of having two children with a British man but I have the fortune of being Norwegian and I have the Norwegian state acting on my behalf to pull in the child support. Hasn’t worked yet but that’s due to British courts that I believe are “backlogged”. I’ve been on mumsnet 15 years and this has been a recurring topic all these years. All the stories of tricks men come up with are the same, going self employed or being in on benefits, time to stop the nonsense. Honestly it is baffling that a supposedly modern and civilized society treats women in this way. Come on British women, fight back properly.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 19/10/2023 09:42

It’s because it’s not socially unacceptable to not pay for your children @Snuppeline

Only when men (and it’s generally men) get shunned, or even get minor grief, by their relatives, get stick from their mates and are seen as undateable will something change. That’s the only time when politicians will get involved as well.

Snuppeline · 19/10/2023 11:42

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 19/10/2023 09:42

It’s because it’s not socially unacceptable to not pay for your children @Snuppeline

Only when men (and it’s generally men) get shunned, or even get minor grief, by their relatives, get stick from their mates and are seen as undateable will something change. That’s the only time when politicians will get involved as well.

Fair point. The flip side of it being socially acceptable in Britain to not pay for your children is the fact that women are shamed for a) being single parent (though thankfully slightly less so than in the past) and b) for being benefit scroungers.

That is a burden shifted onto women by society because men call the shots. I mean Boris was unlikely to address the issue... What I don't understand is why this is not a more prominent campaign issue for female MPs and for Mumsnet. It should be part of any discussion on womens rights.

PermanentTemporary · 19/10/2023 12:29

I've just spent time looking at the responsibilities of the DWP ministers and CMS is not listed as a specific responsibility for any of them 😮

Im going to start a thread asking MN to request a Q&A with Mel Stride who's the sec of state.

user1471538283 · 19/10/2023 12:49

They've always been useless! I never had a penny of them from my ex.

First like the op they couldn't find him and this went on for years. Then (and this is choice) they could find him but because his woman's child was living with him they could take any money for our child. I mean ...

When we were living on benefits I would have been fined if I didn't tell them everything I knew. So I told them.

This is one of the many reasons why I hate him and men like him. I couldn't imagine not wanting to support your child.

debbs77 · 19/10/2023 13:20

They haven't. Even had my MP involved. They know where he lives, what he looks like. Nothing happens

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 19/10/2023 16:06

PermanentTemporary · 19/10/2023 12:29

I've just spent time looking at the responsibilities of the DWP ministers and CMS is not listed as a specific responsibility for any of them 😮

Im going to start a thread asking MN to request a Q&A with Mel Stride who's the sec of state.

It tells you everything about the political opinion/apathy on this when you realise how the current system came about.

Previously RPs on benefits were only allowed to keep £20 a week of any maintenance. The rest was owed to the Secretary of State to go toward the cost of the benefits bill.

The amount owed to the SoS got so high it was decided that something must be done… So after looking at all the powers CMS (or CSA as was) actually have - which are quite a lot - they decided to let people keep the money that they weren’t collecting

That was the best option the government of the day could come up with, and none of them have changed it since.

Feralgremlin · 20/10/2023 16:25

My DS’s father didn’t pay any maintenance for years, wracked up loads of arrears. I was constantly chasing CMS. He was self employed so they couldn’t take directly from his earnings. I was told, verbatim, “we don’t like taking enforcement action and will try to avoid doing so”. They were essentially saying they don’t like doing their jobs!

I did write to my local MP though and the head of the CMS, I think her name was Arlene someone or other, and it did eventually get things moving.

Sophie89j · 20/10/2023 19:23

Absolute crock of shit! My exh used to actively leave employment and find another role as soon as the warrant to gain access to wages was issued to employer then eventually he ran out of work and did cash in hand which as I tax paying citizen I happily informed them
of who the employer was and what he was doing and still nothing!

WrongSwanson · 20/10/2023 19:25

BibbleandSqwauk · 18/10/2023 19:15

On a serious note, a huge number of the issues would be sorted out if it became a branch of HMRC with access to all tax records, and any non payment was covered by the government and taken from any future state pension. It should be inescapable. There should also be a minimum level above the £7 PW that NRPs on benefits are asked for. A realistic figure that actually represents a meaningful contribution.

Exactly. It makes no sense that it isn't treated this way

WrongSwanson · 20/10/2023 19:26

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 19/10/2023 09:42

It’s because it’s not socially unacceptable to not pay for your children @Snuppeline

Only when men (and it’s generally men) get shunned, or even get minor grief, by their relatives, get stick from their mates and are seen as undateable will something change. That’s the only time when politicians will get involved as well.

This is the crux of it.

And shirking paying should be seen as a red flag by potential new partners too.

WrongSwanson · 20/10/2023 19:28

I still don't get how my ex can borrow enough money to buy a decent family house in the south east yet according to CMS he is on the breadline

Original poster
Inthefuckitbucket · 24/10/2023 17:55

Just an update really: I called CMS yet again last week and got through to the most awful individual. I felt like I was on trial and that her role was to protect the poor little man from the nasty ex wife/ witch who wants to take all of his money… we were on the phone for over an hour and I’m ashamed to say, that she made me cry. I was so determined to not break down. At the end she did actually apologise for the way in which she had chosen to conduct the call. I fully intend to make a formal complaint.

Anyway, the upside is that they have now chosen to accept my evidence of his address and have moved the application to the 3rd stage: contacting the parent. Which is a huge step, considering that they have spent a lot of time saying that they can’t find him.

I know that my experience so far has been considerably easy, compared to many others on this thread. I would very much like to ask Mumsnet to facilitate, as a savvy poster suggested above, a discussion with the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Family Support, Housing and Child Maintenance as I just can’t let this go.

OP posts:
Mylovelygreendress · 24/10/2023 18:03

They can trace his address through HMRC . The CMS have extensive powers however are reluctant to use them as the “ poor Dads” lobby is quite powerful. My friend worked with them for a while and claimed there was huge pressure from the top not to use some of their powers such as removing driving licences etc .
One thing she did say was that more second wives/ partners complained than the men and it was always along the same lines - the ex was crazy and didn’t spend the money on the kids .
I understand your frustration OP . One of my DDs has been trying to get maintenance for over 14 years !!