Do we always need the truth pointed out to us about our past?

[JMSA]

I'm lying in bed thinking of my grandad - he died over a decade now - and wondering about something that recently happened. AIBU?
So, he wasn't really a Werther's Original grandad, but we loved him. His upbringing was pretty brutal as he was raised by nuns, not his parents. He was a paratrooper in the war. He loved his family but also loved his cigarettes, whisky and gambling. He was your typical man in the very working-class Scottish town where we lived.
I don't have very many childhood memories of him, as I'm pretty sure he was borderline agoraphobic (other than work and going to mass). He was fairly indulgent and never a smacker (rare). He was always quick with a joke and a song, and his laugh was infectious. He was popular in the community where he lived and would readily help anyone out. Massively flawed but with a good heart.
I remember on a Saturday night, staying over with our grandparents, me and my little sister would stick cotton wool balls onto his head so that he wouldn't feel bad about being bald (I'm convinced he never actually had hair!!). He'd look in the mirror and pretend to be over the moon with his new 'hair'. We loved it.
And when he came home from a nightshift, me and my sister would be desperate to go downstairs and see him. But we always had to wait until the fire was on and the living room was sufficiently warm for us to get out of bed. Then he'd call up to us and we could go downstairs for breakfast. Until his dying day, that man was a 'feeder'. He'd give us biscuits after our cereal and allow us to experiment with orange juice on our Rice Krispies instead of milk. Growing up, our food intake was extremely strictly controlled by our parents (no money, and other issues), so we just thought this was brilliant.
Those are the main memories, which admittedly aren't much ...

My sister and I were recently discussing him fondly, and my mum jumped in. She said that living with him had been stressful for my grandmother, to the point that he caused the cancer that had killed her. It was actually my father's parents, in case you're wondering. She reminded us that one of our childhood 'games' was helping to look for hiding places for his whisky.
He was irresponsible and the biscuits and orange juice only proved that.
I mean, we're not blind. We kind of knew it, especially as our own father pretty much went the same way (flawed but adored). But it left us on a bit of a downer. In a childhood that was decent, but at times fairly impoverished and with definite emotional neglect, would it really have been so wrong to leave us with our memories?

Your mum sounds quite bitter but probably has her own memories of him that aren't so 'rose tinted' and nicely nostalgic.
She could have kept it to herself in the spirit of your conversation .

No, I think your mum’s being a bit of a dick tbh! We experience people in different ways and he was like he was with you because he obviously got huge pleasure out of being a grandparent. Maybe he was a terrible husband - a) you don’t know, because you didn’t experience that part of him and b) it doesn’t matter anyway.

sometimes not-great parents become the best grandparents and I like to think of it as a kind of redemption.

I would question why your mum feels the need to destroy these memories; sounds like they make her uncomfortable for some reason, maybe because it’s making her reflect on what she didn’t provide you with. Irrespective, hold onto your version of your Grandad ❤️

Your mum's truth is important to your mum though.

You're not a child, you can handle the truth now. What your mum said doesn't erase the nice memories you have, but maybe it is time to have a more rounded view of this person.

Maybe it'd be good to try to listen to your mum, and her to you, to understand each other better?

My mother did similar about my grandmother. But in that case it was, "she might have been a wonderful GM but I experienced her differently". Which I think I accepted differently to you because it was her mother. She gets to have her own interpretation of her own mother. Who to me was a lovely smelling old lady who made perfect toast and loved us and to her was a single mum who left her alone a lot to work.

The difference is your GF is not your mum's father. Why does she need to make you feel differently when she din't have to live with a different version as a child?

But there are always multiple ‘truths’. You loved your grandfather, but your mother has another perspective on his drinking, gambling and influence on his grandchildren. Both things can be true simultaneously, and as an adult, you can accept that.

People can be complicated especially when they've experienced childhood trauma themselves.
Playing a game hiding a whisky bottle sounds about right for our generation playing with the grandparents... we each used to have a little wooden pipe (empty!) and "smoke" them with my grandad.
This has clearly bothered you so it may be worth being explicit with your mum that to you he is (was?) a dear old man and you have fond memories. Whatever else went on in the past you don't want to know unless it DIRECTLY affects you today.
Because, OP, it sounds like there was something else. Getting cancer from living with a stressful man? That's not a full story.

It was very odd for your mum to make those comments I feel, and say he caused GM’s cancer, who even comes to those conclusions that’s bizarre. It sounds like you already knew about the other side to your GF anyway. Seems to me like your M didn’t like him for some reason.
probably looking back he had mental health issues stemming from his trauma and he developed those “flaws” as unhealthy coping mechanisms.

@MrsTerryPratchett it’s the father’s father, not the mother’s.

@JMSA I appreciate that this might feel like spoiling memories. But unfortunately it’s a part of life and having a more mature perspective on events.

I have the opposite in my family - my mum remembers her father-in-law very fondly, whereas I think he was quite flawed, not very patient with us grandchildren and not particularly nice to my grandma, and definitely wasn’t my favourite grandparent. But he died when I was 14 so I have no idea what my true adult viewpoint would have been - possibly a bit more complex.

I adored my grandmother (my mum's mum), but my mother had a very difficult relationship with her and has been open about this with me.

Knowing this doesn't spoil my childhood memories of her. I can understand that she was a lovely grandma but not a good mum.

Personally I'm glad my mum shared this with me. It's important to know that we all have different "truths" and to make space for them.

One thing’s for sure is your Mum has given you the memory of her being the person who had to pour cold water on a pleasant bit of rosey reminiscing. You’re grandad sounds quite lovely to me.

You have your memories @JMSA and they shouldn’t be tainted. He was your grandfather and that was how you should remember him. Your relationship with him was special and he obviously cared for you very much. Giving you biscuits and orange juice isn’t irresponsible, it’s fun!

There are people we have in our lives who are special to us in the way we know them and our relationship with them. I have friends I could never live with, make friends I could never marry etc.

Keep you memories alive, he sounds like a special person.

@MrsTerryPratchett knows that - she said that on her post?

You could argue that your mum, as an adult, would have more insight into what he was really like - except that her criticisms of him aren't at all logical. Stress doesn't directly cause cancer; giving the occasional treat or allowing kids to have fun with food isn't irresponsible. He may have been a complex character and difficult at times - with the upbringing he had that would make sense - but I don't think you need to give any credence to these specific criticisms of your mum's, which sound like they're coming from a place of jealousy more than anything else.

I'm not telling my kids or my nieces and nephews what their grandfather was really like and all the things he did. They're happy, he's dead and it is not their burden.

perhaps I got out of bed the wrong side this morning…. I’m still irked by your mum. Does she also say she that in years to come when she has passed, if your children remember her fondly that you really must point out all her flaws to them. She’ll have some. We all do because we’re human.

Is your mum the type that always likes to make her point by throwing cold water over things?
Her criticism is opinion not fact, and isn't constructive or informative.

Children's memories are often around quite small, random things. My favourite memories of my granddad are of walking the dog and gardening when he was housesitting for a weekend. Plus he cooked his baked beans in a frying pan and peeled mushrooms which was mind-blowing 😂

My mother was a drug addict. I've been in therapy on and off for many years due to the things that she allowed to happen to me as a child.

She finally got clean when I was in my late teens. And although she still had issues with drink on and off through the years I did allow her to spend time with my children her grandchildren. And their memories of her are of having fun and lots of laughs.

Now as adults my children know I didn't have a good upbringing. But I'm glad they have lovely memories. I don't behave like your mom and try and tarnish those memories for them.

I think your moms being quite cruel actually. But I also understand that it's not easy hearing someone who really hurt you as a child be thought of fondly by your own children.

Hold onto those lovely times you had with your grandad. But I'd be careful about talking about it in front of your mom if she finds it so painful x

It can be incredibly annoying and difficult to listen to people wax lyrical about how lovely someone was when you know they were anything but- I was abused by a fondly remembered grandfather and no amount of pointing it out has ever altered the prevailing discourse about him…

I think since you are adults, then actual abuse aside, you should all be able to cope with the fact that you experienced your grandad differently- he was a good grandad to you and a bad father in law to your mum 🤷‍♀️.

Both can be true.
My partners father was an an abusive alcoholic who beat their mother in front of them. All of the kids have had severe ongoing MH issues as s result of the trauma and a childhood of walking on eggshells and living in terror.
He's now in his 70s, not drinking and plays at being a model grandad to his toddler grandkids who LOVE him - there's been no acknowledgement from him or remorse for his behaviour and the damage it caused to his kids/ wife.

I think you're jumping to conclusions there, as he wasn't a bad father in law to my mum. My mum fell pregnant with me as a teen, and moved in with my dad's parents. There were 8 of them in a 3 bed house! She remembers him as being nurturing, but also that he wasn't always easy to be married to (because of addiction, not abuse). And that's fair enough. Plus, she was always closer to my grandmother.

Anyway, everyone, I really appreciate your thoughts on this. I fell back asleep after writing my post, dreamt of it, and then was excited to see if there were any replies on waking!
Thanks again.

Maybe your MiL confided in your DM with details your DM finds difficult, especially when she hears the adoration from their Grandchildren.
Our GM (dad's mam ) lived on the other side of the road from us, literally a 3 min walk. We would visit, she was cordial but was never the doting GM. We never slept there and I could count on one hand how many times she babysat us. Which was fine, there were no bad memories.

A while back I was talking to a lady and we realised we lived close by as kids. It came round she lived out the back of GM and had a pretty crap life, some neglect etc but with her parents. My GM seemed like a saviour to her, inviting her and sibling over for meals, babysitting regularly , buying treats etc. ' a loving, warm and kind lady. A lovely 'grandma' that everyone should have.

Now I didn't say anything that would contradict her experience and I'm glad she had someone who was looking out for her and her sister, but I can't match these 'sides' up. This is most definitely NOT our experience of GM and for a while I was confused by it and, to be honest, jealous of her.
I would have loved to have had those experiences of the doting grandparents (none of ours were ) but growing up accepted they weren't like that, but then I hear that she was!

With hindsight I realised that was the lady's view of her. From a neglected child she was loving and caring, but from me, in a warm loving cared for family, she was rather distance and aloof. The reality is probably somewhere inbetween. X

I know what you mean but it’s hard when you know a truth that other family don’t see.

My step dad was crap and he and my mother had a terrible relationship which I remember very clearly. My sisters were very young when she died and they just see their dad who brought them up who loved their mum and never moved on.

I won’t disabuse them of that but it’s extremely frustrating to hear a rose-tinted version of their disgusting relationship that frankly marred my entire childhoood.

My grandfather is perpetually glorified by my narcissistic mother, who thinks that he was the best human being who had lived. She tells my children what a wonderful human being he was, how wonderful he was. And yes, he was very charismatic, on good days, and of course he did have some good qualities, but him being a wonderful man is not completely true and I have to leave the room now when she starts talking like this because I know that a lot of what she tells them are just lies. My grandfather, when drunk - which was fairly often, used to beat the shit of his wife, my grandmother, and my mother’s older brother. He used to have affairs and squander the money they had. He did what he wanted when he wanted. I’ve pointed this out to my mother, but she loses her mind when I do, telling me what a terrible person I am, how very disrespectful I am, to point these things out to her. She was his golden child so he never hurt her. She saw and knew lot about the abuse, but chose to dismiss it. In her own words, “when he was bad, he was bad, but when he was good, he was the best”. And the latter bit of that made everything ok.

He’s many years dead now, and when my kids are older I will tell them what I know about who he was, because ultimately, no one ever really stood up for my wonderful grandmother, or her son, and everything that she had to go through because of him. Back then she couldn’t leave him become she came from a patriarchal and religious society, when women just had to put up and shut up.

My mother can say what she wants about her father, but it doesn’t mean that I have to perpetuate these myths about him, and continue telling my children lies about him and my family.

I really liked DPs grandma, she was witty & fun, kind, DP was her favourite and she was always very welcoming to me.

SIL ( who had to live with her for a few years as a teen, as did my in laws - DP was already at Uni) is constantly sniping about grandma ( now passed) trying to tell me what an ‘old bitch’ she wasn’t and not nice to them the years they moved into her house etc.

I have had to tell her - that’s not my experience of her grandma, and I’m sure it was very difficult for everyone squashed together in her tiny bungalow for 3 years, but I never met THAT version of grandma.
man’s can only judge her in my relationship with her.
Plus - that was 30+‘years ago, move on! Have some respect for the woman who stopped you being homeless…

I think it's one of the good things about families- to mull over the good and bad of others. I've done this a lot with my parents - both had complex relationships with one of their parents and I experienced different as a grandchild. I don't want to live with rose tinted specs, we're all mixed people and I think that makes life more interesting. It hadn't affected my memories, just helped us all acknowledge that there is good and bad in everyone.