Do we always need the truth pointed out to us about our past?

[JMSA]

I'm lying in bed thinking of my grandad - he died over a decade now - and wondering about something that recently happened. AIBU?
So, he wasn't really a Werther's Original grandad, but we loved him. His upbringing was pretty brutal as he was raised by nuns, not his parents. He was a paratrooper in the war. He loved his family but also loved his cigarettes, whisky and gambling. He was your typical man in the very working-class Scottish town where we lived.
I don't have very many childhood memories of him, as I'm pretty sure he was borderline agoraphobic (other than work and going to mass). He was fairly indulgent and never a smacker (rare). He was always quick with a joke and a song, and his laugh was infectious. He was popular in the community where he lived and would readily help anyone out. Massively flawed but with a good heart.
I remember on a Saturday night, staying over with our grandparents, me and my little sister would stick cotton wool balls onto his head so that he wouldn't feel bad about being bald (I'm convinced he never actually had hair!!). He'd look in the mirror and pretend to be over the moon with his new 'hair'. We loved it.
And when he came home from a nightshift, me and my sister would be desperate to go downstairs and see him. But we always had to wait until the fire was on and the living room was sufficiently warm for us to get out of bed. Then he'd call up to us and we could go downstairs for breakfast. Until his dying day, that man was a 'feeder'. He'd give us biscuits after our cereal and allow us to experiment with orange juice on our Rice Krispies instead of milk. Growing up, our food intake was extremely strictly controlled by our parents (no money, and other issues), so we just thought this was brilliant.
Those are the main memories, which admittedly aren't much ...

My sister and I were recently discussing him fondly, and my mum jumped in. She said that living with him had been stressful for my grandmother, to the point that he caused the cancer that had killed her. It was actually my father's parents, in case you're wondering. She reminded us that one of our childhood 'games' was helping to look for hiding places for his whisky.
He was irresponsible and the biscuits and orange juice only proved that.
I mean, we're not blind. We kind of knew it, especially as our own father pretty much went the same way (flawed but adored). But it left us on a bit of a downer. In a childhood that was decent, but at times fairly impoverished and with definite emotional neglect, would it really have been so wrong to leave us with our memories?

I’m not sure I’d see it as ‘good’, but it’s certainly one of the complexities of family relationships — siblings, even brought up in similar circumstances by the same parents, will have entirely different versions of those parents.

My next sister and I broadly agree that, while our parents tried their best, they were disastrous parents, having come from deprived, dysfunctional backgrounds themselves and having no idea how to parent, but the next oldest sister disagrees and is extremely defensive about them. Our brother, much younger and the only boy, had a very different, more indulged childhood.

The same sister remembers our maternal grandmother as interesting, kind and spiky. I remember her as a vicious, unhappy woman with a knack for verbal cruelty..

I tend to think it is quite interesting to find out other people's perception and experience of someone/an event.

Shows the people are complex creatures and that often there is one "truth" about someone or some event - people will have experienced them differently even at the same time.

Having a nice relationship with a grandchild and playing games, giving them biscuits etc is much easier than having a nice relationship with another adult, with all their own baggage and expectations and history.

Small children are pretty easy to please and are pre-disposed to be affectionate and loving to adults who are nice to them.

Adults are much harder to please and more complex.
Had your grandfather lived until you were in your 40s, your experience of him may well have changed. You would have been a more complex person that you were as a small child. He would not have needed to be on his best behaviour around you. It's not a bad thing, it is just life in its rich and varied tapestry.

You can appreciate that as a child you enjoyed his company and also recognise he was a complex person as an adult.

My DP says she doesn’t recognise her ( very strict ) parents when they’re with our kids - she says they’re like different people! Fun, patient, generous, kind… whereas she got demanding, strict, tight
and hard to please!!

I cannot get over people who put useless/abusive parents/grandparents on pedestals. My cousins do this about their dad who was a useless, alcoholic, gambling layabout who gave my aunt no end of strife. He actively caused upset between my aunt and one of the cousins to the point they no longer speak (it's been years). Yet, at his funeral there was all tears and what a funny man he was. I was sad my aunt/cousins were upset but I was glad he was dead. I wish he'd gone 20 years before. He ruined my aunt's life. To top it all one of cousins named their baby after him- why?!

I think people respond to different people, in different ways, for sure. And I have no doubt that you had a genuine connection with your DPs grandmother. However, in some cases things are not what they seem. So often, people have come up to me and said what a wonderful, and kind and generous my mother is - and sometimes she is genuinely like this, but I have to bite my tongue as I know, that moment they person has left, my mother is slagging this person off left right and centre, criticising them about goodness know what, being unkind about them. But to their face she is charming and lovely. If they only knew what she was really like they wouldn’t think she was so charming.

It would be fine for your mum to acknowledge that her relationship with him was strained and more difficult than yours. Children's relationships with relatives are often different than adult ones.
I think it's unreasonable for her to actively try to ruin happy childhood memories you have though. My gut says that's a dick move.

A few years ago my ex partner died and I found out (by chance) on social media. There were lots of people waxing lyrical about what a lovely guy he was, what a great mate, what a character, life and soul of the party, liked a drink and a laugh etc. Those comments were the hardest thing I’ve ever had to read because I endured three years of violent, coercive abuse from him, had to deal with his alcoholism, was left in debt because of him, and upon leaving him was harassed and threatened for another year by him, including threats against my family and even my family pets.

You’re entitled to your happy memories of your grandfather, just like my ex’s family and friends are entitled to their happy memories of him. But for your mum, who probably knows a bit more about what he was like as a husband and father, as well as a grandad, it’s probably quite difficult to sit and bite her tongue when she knows he had some serious flaws. To her it probably felt like saying nothing would be a betrayal of your grandmother, who obviously had a very hard time.

Yes. I try to make it plain to my son that it’s ok to experience people differently and have different relationships with them.

On the other hand, the grandfather the OP describes sounds deeply problematic (agoraphobic, gambler and alcoholic, possible war PSTD?), and as it seems as if the OP’s mother had to watch her husband following in his father’s footsteps, it’s perhaps understandable she thinks it’s educative for her daughters to be reminded of the darker side of their grandfather.

Yes - my beloved grandmother expected my mum to basically run the home when she was 13-14 so she could look after her elderly parents in their home. Both views are true. I learned the latter one when I was an adult. I’m not sure why my DM felt the need to say it when she did but I can see why she was needled by my view of DGM as perfect.

This is a really interesting thread - made me think about some incidents in my past.

Your memories are still valid. Your mum has a different perspective, that's all.

People are rarely good or bad. They are complex. I'm sure your grandad did have some unfavourable characteristics but it's fine for you to remember the happy times. He sounds like a very doting grandkid (even if he wasn't the best husband).

A lot of people think stress causes serious illness. Living with and raising children with someone with gambling and drinking issues would be very stressful so I can see why OPs mum made that link.

I'm not a medical expert but my own doctors have told me stress affects my disabilities and that the most effective thing I could try at the moment is to get the help I need to cope with some of the emotional stress I've carried about for decades and still struggle with. I've been told that studies have shown a link between stress and some cancers but I haven't gone looking for them tbf. I don't think it's that odd for OPs mum to make that link between her mils physical health and the stress of raising children and living daily with a gambler and a drinker especially at a time it wasn't so easy for women to leave such men.

DC experienced my late DM very differently to me. She was emotionally unavailable. I was never hugged, kissed or told I was loved. I never received a Birthday/Christmas card or gift (absolutely nothing) after I was aged around 9/10. I could go on and on.
To DC she was warm, loving and very generous. I went out of my way to be the opposite to DM as a mother. DC are all very tactile and loving and DM responded to this but it was definitely at their instigation. She never offered those hugs but they never noticed. She died a few years ago.
They miss her dearly. I barely noticed her loss. We all have our truths. DC know how my childhood was, they've asked as they grew up. I have always made a point of the fact that we can see the same person completely differently. I don't think your DM should be silenced because her experience is different.

Charming. He sounds like a nasty piece of work to me, but let's pathologise women's experience of managing an alcoholic shall we?

Well it’s like the old saying isn’t it

Theres 3 sides to every story
Yours
Theirs
The truth

and I think memories and experiences are much like that too. Both things can be true to both people. He could have been a great grandad whilst also having his own demons and flaws. Both can exist together.

In fact I’d probably go as far as to say two people rarely get the same experience. My kids would hopefully remember me as a good mum who tried her best, affectionate and patient etc.

whilst my partner knows that sometimes I flipping hate parenting and I don’t have a huge amount of patience and tolerance at all.

You’re entitled to your memories whilst also respecting that others have a different set of memories.

Yes, I agree with this. It's fine for your mum to explain her own viewpoint, but she should respect yours too and not try to change your mind or tell you that you are wrong to think that way.

I'm reading replies about the mum's experience, but he wasn't her dad was he, the OP said it was her father's dad?

I think your memories sound lovely, just focus on that x

My mother was not a good mother to me. She wasn’t a mother at all really and is lucky she’s in my life.

However she’s an entirely different grandmother to my children and so they can make up their own minds. Their relationship with her is theirs, not mine. My eldest sees her personality with his own eyes and that’s his truth too.

I am not here to vet or change anyone’s narrative, their experience and relationships are theirs separate from me and how I might feel about it. So I don’t think your relative is unreasonable to feel that way about Grandad and neither are you. The truth remains the truth though. You should not negate or invalidate her experience, or impose a rosy view of him just because it’s nice to gloss over the bad stuff.

Keep your memories for you, let her keep her memories too.

@Snowdayplease but the OP's mum can still have her own experience of her FIL, it doesn't matter that it's not her dad.

Well she can indeed Saracen but I think the replies sound as if the mum was being raised by this difficult man, and having him as a fil isn't the same as having him as a dad.
Either way the OP had good memories and she should hold onto those even while now being away his actions in general were far from perfect.

Everyone has their own memories of people and recently I was talking with my sister about childhood stuff and got some kind of home truths about people I was gushing about. She’d never told me before and I guess it was either one of those days or the straw that broke the camels back. If there’s a next time just say ‘well that’s the way I remember him.’ To be fair dh reminisces about his dad and I have to zip it or sometimes I find myself saying’some of that sounds dangerous’ but more because I don’t want him thinking it’s okay to do that stuff with our kids!!!!!

My point is that she has her experience of him and you have yours, and unless he did something actually abhorrent, then you have to accept that.