Motorbikes and fatal accidents

[EmmaDilemma5]

The vast majority of fatal accidents I read about involve a motorbike (and often a lorry).

Motorcyclists seem so vulnerable on the roads. AIBU to think something should be done about this?

I'm not trying to victim blame, but I often see motorcyclists weaving around the queues, speeding ridiculous speeds on motorways and generally not abiding by the usual rules of the road.

It's a bit like XL bullies. When you hear of a fatal dog attack, you can almost guarantee it includes a Bully. Same with fatal road accidents, it seems nearly each time it involves a motorbike.

AIBU to think, for their sakes, those of their families and for those traumatised by killing cyclists, that something needs to be addressed?

That's true, but certain makes of car attract certain individuals, that isn't in doubt. Of course, a contributing factor is that German cars are so common.

OMG just remembered I have had an accident with a motorbike. I was reversing into a space on a high street and he drove straight into the back of me at some speed. He was very apologetic and took full responsibility and stuck to it despite his aggressive insurance company trying to do a knock for knock and saying I had no proof. I actually also had a witness, a oldish man knocked on my window afterwards and handed me his name, address and telephone number. They restored a bit of my faith in human nature!

In 2021 310 motor cyclists were killed in the uk, that's 20% of all fatalities were motorcyclists. I think it feels more because you tend to hear about them rather than car drivers

I've ridden bikes for years and I'm a firm believer that riding a motorbike for 6 months should be a pre requisite to applying for a car licence.

As a biker, I can say that education is needed. For all road users.

I'd love an element of the CBT to be included in the car test. I wonder how many car drivers will think about their behaviour, when they're the one having a multi tonne vehicle sat up their backside.

Of course we're going to come off worse in an accident. We get catapulted off our bikes, we slide along roads and smash in to lampposts, we get run over by other vehicles etc. I was rear ended by a women on her phone. She was fine, I was not, because strangely, bodies being hit by cars, come off worse than vehicles playing bumper cars.

That's not to say some bikers aren't a menace on the roads, and believe they're the next marquez, or Dunlop - but the worst are the SMIDSY, the 'sorry mate I didn't see you', because they are on autopilot in the car, not concentrating because little timmy in the back is having a tantrum, or whatever reason where they shouldn't be in control of a vehicle if they don't have the ability to concentrate on the road at all times.

@EmmaDilemma5 Yes, something should be done, and that something is educating car drivers about being motorbike- and cyclist- aware.

Totally agree with this.

I remember someone saying to me about 20 years ago that all accidents between cars and motorbikes are the car driver's fault. I am not sure - I have seen lots of stupid overtaking by motorbikes, but probably much less of it in recent years, so maybe all the training and advanced driving courses are paying off. Doesn't help when a car driver does something stupid though except to give you a chance of getting yourself out of a dangerous situation.

I can only say I am glad my DH and DS don't ride motorbikes and don't want to!

I am not keen on "filtering", I think it's undertaking and dangerous. If you want to get past, overtake (I think most people on motorbikes do, it's people on pushbikes who go up the inside and then wonder (if they are still alive) why they get squashed.

As the mum of a 22 yr old motorcyclist who was killed by an articulated lorry driven by a man who thought he owned the road , I think it’s the law that needs changing. RTC’s are treated differently in law with lesser sentences. Road Peace are a charity petitioning the Government for this change in the law. My son wasn’t speeding, weaving in and out being stupid, he was riding home after meeting friends. No alcohol in his system. Of course as with everything you get the idiots , cyclists motorbike riders but at the end of the day it comes down to the law.
My sons killer got 8 years ( the highest we could have hoped for due to sentencing laws) He thought it unfair he was given that sentence, thought it was too much, so he dragged us to the high court in London where 3 Appeal Court Judges upheld his conviction of 8 years. He even said during his barristers speech that he can’t see how he was at fault. So no acknowledgement of guilt. Despite being shown the reconstruction of what happened , showing clearly he was at fault.
Nothing will change until the Law does. And more people like us are left with shattered families.

I was rear ended by a women on her phone

Yes far more needs to be done about this (and general distractions in cars - why are those large displays allowed).

Right.... So it's the person on a 2 wheeled vehicle at blame here, not the 2 ton SUV's ploughing down vulnerable road users ... Get rid of cars, not the folks doing their best to be concientious of the impact they have on the environment around them

@Kimsey1509 so sorry for your loss. I totally agree that killing someone while driving should be treated the same as manslaughter and should not attract lower sentences. There is too much of a feeling of "there but for the grace of God" - well if sentences were increased, people would be more careful.

Not to do with motorbikes, but someone mowed down two girls on a pelican crossing (on green for them) in 2016 near where I live. He was drunk. He got six years, for taking two lives. Was probably out in three.

If you want to cut down on the amount of fatal accidents involving bikes then maybe every learner driver (who's physically able to) should do a cycling proficiency or a bike CBT as part of their training? So many drivers have no idea of what it's like to be on two wheels.

It surprises me how many people think that filtering is some dangerous, illegal manoeuvre rather than something we're actually taught to do when getting our licence. And I've seen people jump when a bike goes past them at 10mph in slow-moving traffic. Why? You're in charge of several tonnes of metal and if your car's moving, even slowly, you should still be using your mirrors.

Yes there are far too many idiot bikers and they often won't make old bones. They break the speed limit, make too much noise with illegal exhausts and give the rest of us a bad name. The only thing to do about that is enforce the law. When they crash though they're more likely to only hurt themselves (or their unlucky pillion).

Most of us don't break the law and like everyone else we just want to get home safe. We're also taught to ride defensively, assuming that drivers haven't seen us, particularly at junctions, and being ready to move out of their way safely. Most bike riders have a story of SMIDSY (sorry mate I didn't see you) when a driver just didn't look.

I took a break from riding for a couple of years so when I started again I went and got refresher training from the Police. That's fairly common because it's well known that "born-again bikers" can end up having accidents because their skills are rusty.

I'm a car driver too and how many of us would even think about doing that after a break from driving or when we move from the tiny car we passed our test in to some much more powerful beast? We can take a test at 17 and nobody checks our skills or our health until we're 70. But some bikers do extra training because we know that when we screw up - or a driver doesn't see us - it's far more likely to kill us.

DH used to ride a motor bike. He came off it one day and broke his collar bone. He got absolutely no sympathy in the hospital. One doctor told him that "Around here we call people like you organ donors".
Thankfully he sold the bike soon after.

I only went out with him for a ride on his motorcycle... We have now been married for 41 years and he's still riding a motorbike. It's a case of riding defensively and within his limits.

Yes I have heard that before in hospitals

Yes, YABU.

I was going to say you must be listening out for motorbike accident reposts, as that really isn't the case in any news (incl social media) articles I see / hear. Glad this has been backed up with official figures from @BCCoach .

As for your statement about the bad driving of bikers
I have no skin in this, I am not a biker and don't have anyone close to me who is, but that is a ridiculous claim.

Plus, there are regular "Think bike" campaigns already.

We definitely get idiot bikers around here, but also idiot car drivers too! Lots of long country Roman roads.

As above, motorcyclists are legally allowed to filter through a traffic jam. In fact they would fail their motorbike test for not doing so. Just because it gets up car drivers' noses doesn't mean they are in the wrong. Car drivers should be more aware of the possibility.

It's similar to people getting annoyed about people correctly using a zipper merge at a lane closure, and complaining about people "pushing in". Try reading the highway code before moaning about other people's driving.

Translation: don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.
You cannot make policy based on one person's perception.

A very good friend of mine died in bike/lorry collision in north Wales. The inquest proved that the collision happened as the lorry had crossed the central line but the driver was found not at fault 🤷🏼‍♀️. It was an absolute tragedy, a young man in his twenties due to get married a week later and died on impact.

And a really good way to reduce future accidents with bikers is to teach children to count the amount of motorbikes and cyclists they see on the roads on every single car journey. Then as adults they will automatically look for them when they learn to drive.

The bikers that make me wince are the ones in summer who ride in a t shirt or without proper leathers at other times. My brother hit gravel and came off his bike, shredding his leathers - I try not to imagine what it would have done to skin.

There are idiot bikers just as there are idiot drivers though. The filtering through traffic irritates me from a "I'm sitting here so should you!" point of view but that's just jealousy that they are getting where they need to go - I know they are meant to do it. There is an issue with bikers speeding - they seem to go much faster than any speeding cars in my area but that might just be misperception because of the noise/size.

I suppose that, at the end of the day, the person risking the most is the biker themselves. I guess they think they are bulletproof.

I definitely do agree that motorcyclists are generally more vulnerable and could easily have worse outcomes if they have an accident. Two people I knew at 6th form (very small classes) died as teenagers following motorbike accidents. As far as I'm aware, neither was at fault in any way.

However, I do also often notice motorcyclists behaving the way you describe and I've even seen one coming up the slip road leading on to a motorway (so going completely the wrong way). That said, I've also seen a huge number of dickhead drivers of other vehicles too so I think there's just too many people on the roads that think the rules don't even vaguely apply to them.
Better enforcement of the rules would probably help - and I don't mean fining people who inadvertently go 1 or 2 miles over the speed limit on a motorway, but those who speed excessively, or drive too close or aggressively, or without lights when they're needed etc.
Lots of people I've known have bragged about getting away with that sort of thing or just doing a course then going back out and behaving exactly the same afterwards. Getting those types of people to drive correctly or just be off the roads completely could save so many lives

It's not necessarily a speeding rider that is the issue.
Bikers are harder to see, they camouflage into the background really well when it's busy and the high instances of death/injury occur because of the fragility of the human body hitting tarmac. We're actually very breakable!

Bikers are harder to see, they camouflage into the background really well when it's busy

You've just reminded me of an occasion where there was a car and a bike in front of me. It was dark and by some freak positioning, the biker's rear light blended seamlessly with one of those on the car in front making the biker invisible. I knew he was there as I'd seen him before he "vanished". If he'd had reflective gear on he would have been visible.

LOVE this idea