Motorbikes and fatal accidents

[EmmaDilemma5]

The vast majority of fatal accidents I read about involve a motorbike (and often a lorry).

Motorcyclists seem so vulnerable on the roads. AIBU to think something should be done about this?

I'm not trying to victim blame, but I often see motorcyclists weaving around the queues, speeding ridiculous speeds on motorways and generally not abiding by the usual rules of the road.

It's a bit like XL bullies. When you hear of a fatal dog attack, you can almost guarantee it includes a Bully. Same with fatal road accidents, it seems nearly each time it involves a motorbike.

AIBU to think, for their sakes, those of their families and for those traumatised by killing cyclists, that something needs to be addressed?

My car was destroyed by a motorcyclist slamming into the back of it at 90-100 mph many years ago. DH was driving, and he initially thought he was at fault, but witnesses all said no, it wasn't his fault at all. The Police knew who the motorcyclist was and said he'd done it before, and had nearly been killed that time. This time, he was very badly injured. There was no excuse - it was a long straight road, but was travelling too fast to stop in time. DH & I were both injured and had to be taken to hospital.

Motorcyclists are more vulnerable in road traffic collisions I don't necessarily think they drive more dangerously than car drivers. My friend was killed in a motorbike accident a number of years ago. A car pulled out from a junction onto a main road crashing straight into my friend, killing him instantly. Apparently the car never noticed the motorbike! We were told this is quite a common accident. My friend didn't stand a chance. Please don't victim blame. Every road user whether it's a car, motorbike, bike escooter etc needs to take care and be alert

I'm a motorcyclist, so probably in a pretty good position to shed some light on this.
Motorcyclists, for the most part, do not do 150mph on the motorway. Althought the bikes are most certainly capable (mine will do 70mph in 2nd gear for example), it's just not very doable. TT riders sure, but the average Joe? No.

We undertake training, in particular I've trained with the police, Rospa and IAM in a bid to make myself safe on the road and to ensure that other road users actually see me.
Most bikers wear decent gear, Kevlar top to bottom, decent helmet, all the gear, all the time.
Even when it's hot weather and we're basically sat on a combustion engine, we wear the correct gear.
It may appear that we're 'whizzing around bends', but in reality, we'll take the bend at the speed of the road, it probably looks faster because we have to lean, it's basic physics really. And of course we lean, if we didn't, we'd end up in a field somewhere, or somebody's front garden.

We filter. Of course we do, we're allowed, in slow moving or static traffic.

A lot of accidents are, sure, down to rider error.

The rider overcooking it on a bend and ending up wrapped around a lamppost, the rider who was going too fast and didn't see that the traffic had slowed,.

But an equal number of accidents are down to car drivers not actually seeing us.
We're actually taught to weave on the road when we're approching a junction, to enable the car driver to see the moving light and not pull out.

More education needs to happen on both sides.

Motorcyclists undertake more further training than any other road users, and can do so at any time, thanks to proactive behaviour from the road safety organisations and police forces. We have a good understanding of the highway code, and ride accordingly.

It would be great if car drivers could do the same.

And finally, for transparency, I'm also a car driver.

I ride a motorbike. I ride it safely - within the speed limit and with great care - but in the last year I can tell you of at least 20 times a car has pulled out in front of me, over taken me dangerously and nearly knocked me off. Car drivers are a menace. Yes idiot riders are out there but believe me they all know the risks and are far far more careful. I tell my son that his biggest risk is car drivers not driving with care and attention and you have to mitigate for that at all times.

“Do you usually fact check every thread? It's fine you've done that here, I've learned something new to know that there are more fatalities from car driver than motorcycles (assuming the stats don't include passengers?). But it does seem a bit arsy, given this is Mumsnet, not a peer reviewed article. I'm just a normal person, who's heard of a few recent motorbike deaths and wondering if there's anything that can be done to reduce the deaths.”

Well no, I don’t fact check every thread. But if I’m going to comment, I like to add more than, “aw hun you’re so right”. There’s lots of intelligent posts on MN and I’ve learned a lot from them. From the speed of my response, you can see that the “research” took minimal time. I’m interested in statistics, and actually a million years ago part of my degree course was perception of hazards, and it’s relevant in my day job now. Not motorcycles! But behaviour around safety at work. So your thread interested me.

There is a documentary on Netflix (I believe) called Road about the famous Dunlop family- generations of road motorcycling champions. Literally all of them (I think with one exception) died on the road. 😢

There are old bikers, there are bold bikers. There are no old bold bikers.

That said I believe the cause of many motorbike accidents is the disparity in speed between bike and car.
As a car driver I find I tend to believe that by necessity other vehicles are moving at a similar speed, so my reactions/movements are tuned to that speed - sometimes a bike is moving at a much faster speed simply because their acceleration is higher so we end up in dangerous situations.

Am in London at the moment and there are a huge number of 'L' plated delivery bikes that get ridiculously close to my rear. I don't think they realise that at night this means their headlight(s) drop below my rear window and they are effectively invisible.

There also seems to be a trend towards twin lights on bikes - crazy IMHO - these are close together so look like a car much further away - have turned in front of these a couple of times and frightened the shit out of myself and presumably the biker.

I think it’s six if one and 1/2 a dozen of the other
the amount of people who just pullout is shocking
they see you and literally expect you to stop because your not a car

As for overtaking I think some people in cars are horrified and see manoeuvres that sat in your car seem dangerous
but in a bike your in a totally different position you can see directly over a line of car where to people in the car it looks like you’ve pulled out blind
and acceleration on bikes is many times faster than cars

so when they overtake you think dickhead they can’t see and won’t make it where as they can see and have 4 Times the acceleration of your car to get past

the biggest danger of weaving ( which is legal ) js car drivers being arseholes and deliberately blocking you because they have to wait bikes should
I always go slow with both feet down as cars zig zag to block u

@EmmaDilemma5

You have never seen us or our friends then, we keep to all speed limits, go round corners slowly and the max speed for filtering in heavy traffic is 20mph. We have heavy duty protective clothing. The only place I have gone over 100 mph is in Germany and it was legal, I didn't like it and made him slow down

Cyclists are far more vulnerable!

It's perception thought isn't it? I live on a rural road, in a village 30mph. It has twists and turns, a bridge, and goes into a long and winding uphill 40mph section. Unfortunately most motorbikes, and believe me, it is most, because I see and hear them, go anything up to 70/80mph around here, because, I assume, it is fun. I have had motorbikes overtake on the blind corner, and when I am stationary, with indicators on, trying to turn right into my drive, which is just beyond the corner.

The road has recently been relaid, and is now smooth and inviting, even more tempting to speed on.

The road is used by horses and many bicycles, who also enjoy the uphill section. It's also a popular walking route. It's notorious for accidents, but still they speed.

This weekend a 60 year old was killed on the hill. To be fair, I don't know the circumstances, of who was at fault, but accidents are frequent here, and it's always, always, speed.

I ride, and the biggest danger I've consistently noticed isnt exuberant motorcyclists (of which I admit there are many) but car drivers who don't check their mirrors or look properly before changing lanes or pulling out of junctions or on to roundabouts. The amount of times I've almost been hit on a roundabout is frightening. It's such a risk that as part of your test you have to show that you can do a tight evasive maneuver at speed. Although I have noticed in recent years there's been a marked increase of scooters/mopeds doing very silly things like undertaking lorries on single carriageways 🤦🏻‍♀️ makes me absolutely cringe but they only need a CBT and that's very easy to pass.

@FrankieStein403 interesting points about the acceleration and the lights, thanks!

When my dp was knocked off it was due to a car overtaking on a blind bend on his side of the road. How about banning cars from overtaking on corners, oh no that's already illegal but they still do it.

Motorcycles, especially the new low powered electric ones are a great mix to our lower carbon economy. Ideal for those without adequate public transport and too far for standard bikes

And even at 36 degree temperatures I wear Kevlar, the stuff bullet proof vests are made of, it's hot!

I often watch the Air Ambulance programmes and the injuries to motorcycle riders is often really bad. I believe they are something like 9% of road users and 20% of accidents. We get them a lot around here, going fast and overtaking irresponsibly. There are large notices on several roads telling them to slow down because of high accident rates.

The only thing that needs addressing is aggressive driving by (usually) men in certain types of cars. We need more police presence on the roads and huge fines given out for this type of driving . All road users would be safer then. Motorbikes are so much more vulnerable to aggressive drivers doing stupid things and killing motorbike riders.

The problem is the majority of MN think undertaking is correct and the right thing to do which is frightening
as proved by a thread on this the other month

@BabyDubsEverywhere

A good friend of mine was killed on his bike when doing 30 on a 30... the car pulled out on him and he was catapulted over the car. It was all caught on camera. He died at the scene.

Same here Babydubs and the rider was only 17

A large percentage of RTCs involving motorbikes are the result of idiots in cars having the anticipation and awareness of a turnip and not having a clue what's going on around them. That isn't to say a lot of bikers don't ride like goons, however.

Absolutely true, it's almost a guarantee they'll be driving a German car.

I've had a motorbike licence for nearly 30 years and passed my bike test before passing in a car. Until I started car lessons I did not realise how invisible I had been to car drivers. Thats not because I was not making myself visible, but things like car door pillars and street furniture can obscure a motorbike fairly easily. Even with hi-viz clothing and headlights on the bike switched on, it doesn't always help plus motorbikes, even when going at the speed limit, appear to be going faster than they are.

I commuted into the nearby city every day for 20 years and luckily only had minor scrapes, which were not my fault. The only serious off I had, I was on my own and slid on some black ice - some would argue I probably should not have been out in those weather conditions, but it was my only form of transport and I needed to get to work.

I lost three friends, had one lose an arm and another become permanently disabled and they were all the fault of car drivers.

I haven't ridden for a couple of years now, but I think the general standard of driving - mostly car drivers - has decreased significantly, and as much as I miss it, I don't think I am in any rush to return to two wheels.

See this is where it gets silly and the argument weakens..the guy is still a tw*t if he drives a Ford. Nothing to do with what country the car was manufactured in!

I am a biker a d a member of a bike club. We are al, doing fine thanks and encounter way more issues with car drivers not paying attention. Maybe concentrate on using all your mirrors when driving to check what's happening around you - not just at junctions.

You've got this wrong. Bikes filter in traffic. They all do because they're allowed, I believe it encouraged. The reason there are accidents or near misses is because the cars aren't leaving them space to do so or are not looking at their surroundings.

I'm not saying bikes are blameless but it's usually the fault of the car/lorry that hits them.

I am a biker a d a member of a bike club. We are al, doing fine thanks and encounter way more issues with car drivers not paying attention. Maybe concentrate on using all your mirrors when driving to check what's happening around you - not just at junctions.

I hit a motorbike years ago while I was taking a right turn, I did check my mirrors but as he was doing over 100mph in a 30 limit I didn't see him until he hit me. A driver pulled over to wait for the police and give a statement as though he was not involved, he was not surprised to see there had been an accident because of the speed and dangerous overtaking, in a built up area.

I get that car drivers need to check mirrors but bikers really need to stick to speed limits, and many don't.