To ask for your advice on how to get baby to sleep - please help!

[Springbaby2023]

My 5.5 month old baby will not sleep and has not slept well since 3.5 months. I’ve posted about this before but it’s just getting worse and worse, he’s now up every 30 mins - hour over night. Never does more than an hour.

Last night he was up god knows how many times (it’s usually around 10 when I count) and has now been awake since 4.30th and my three year old will be up any minute. Today will be hell.

I’m at my wits end and can’t think clearly on it because of being so tired.

He has a good nap schedule but is fed to sleep (EBF) which I think is the issue. Also has a dark room, white noise, isn’t too hot/ too cold, has teething medicine, anything you can think of basically. Won’t take a dummy.

As far as I can see I’ve got three options:

1. Wait it out, know it’s a phase and will pass
2. Sleep train
3. Introduce solids to see if that helps (I don’t think it will but MIL swears it will so thought I’d include it)

I honestly go round and round in circles trying to decide what to do and it’s driving me just as mad as the lack of sleep itself. I don’t really want to sleep train but I can’t keep living like this.

Probably opening a can of worms here but has anyone got any advice on what to do? Or even just on how to survive this phase.

He may be hungry, but puréed fruit and veg isn't going to have as many calories as milk, and rusks are 20% sugar, so I'd stick with milk if you want him full up...

a bit of puréed veg isn’t going to make any difference at all. How filling do people think steamed broccoli is?! If he eats it at 5 or 6pm then it will be digested within 6 hours. If he’s genuinely hungry then early weaning will not help. If it’s purely due to hunger - which I doubt - then you do need to get him to take bigger feeds throughout the day and also when he does feed at night. But it’s no coincidence that he’s waking every 30-60 mins which is about the length of a sleep cycle. He would have to be ravenous to be waking that often purely due to hunger.

So again I suspect if he is falling asleep on the breast that it’s just his way of getting back to sleep. Fine if you can hack it, but if not then he needs to be going to sleep off the breast even if that means rocking to sleep initially or some other method. It’s stressful for a baby to go from being nicely fed to sleep go just crying themselves to sleep and wouldn’t be pleasant for either of you even if it did work eventually. But you can do gradual addition of other sleep cues and then remove the feeding and he will eventually learn. Stopping cosleeping may also help, he can smell you and your milk right next to him.

FWIW both of mine have been like this and still woke for boob every 40 mins even at age 1.5 when eating three full meals and two snacks per day. I would bet my house he’s not waking for hunger. It’s because it’s the only way they know how to get themselves to sleep. Both of mine started sleeping through as soon as I night weaned them. Yours is a bit young for total night weaning (I think they really need to be on a good solid three meals a day before you do this not just a bit of steamed veg).

How often does he feed during the day? If you do think he's hungry at night, might be worth offering more feeds during the day before trying actual food.

You could also try a new sleep routine which discourages feeding to sleep so as an example feed before bath instead of after bath and then book/lullaby/sleep cue of choice, white noise and kiss goodnight.

I used the pick up/put down method which did work but it does need some patience and perservering but it did help my DS learn how to self settle.

@SouthLondonMum22 in the day he can happily go three hours without food, so I am trying to make a conscious effort to feed him more often. We have tried a different routine this last week but it always just ends in me feeding him to sleep anyway. And he always wakes up half an hour after I put him down no matter what time bedtime is or what we do.

@Guibhyl i definitely agree a bit of steamed broccoli won’t help but I guess my thinking is he’s due to start weaning first, so is it better to start the weaning process before starting any sleep training, rather than sleep training and then introducing solids a couple of weeks later which is likely to unsettle him. You’re right about Co sleeping though, I was only thinking this morning that I might try and move his crib away from the bed and see if that helps. As during the day he can connect his sleep cycles at nap time no problem!!

That's because of his sleep association with breastfeeding, he's waking up after the first sleep cycle looking to feed again because that's the only thing he knows.

It's possible to change it but it will be difficult, especially since he gets upset. It does sound incredibly likely that he isn't hungry though. Might be worth gritting your teeth and offering plenty of cuddles, short term pain for long term gain.

Is DP trying to rock him every time? The only thing that broke feed-to-sleep with both of mine (I wasn't up for sleep training) was my DP taking over - think we decided on a window when I'd feed but not quite to sleep and he would persevere all other times. Got down to one night feed that way in a week or so. The biggest thing is mum guilt but you've grown, birthed and fed a baby- DP it's your time!

Get a sleep consultant. Then you can figure out the options, what type of sleep training will work for you (gentle, tough etc) and you'll have the knowledge that this will be sorted in a few weeks. They're normally a couple of hundred quid - money well spent.

I second Sarah carpenter sleep. And also if you do reach out to her, she can tell you whether to wean first or do the sleep training first. She supported us in a wholesale way, with weaning, allergens, sleep, naps, development, rolling, everything!

@napody no he doesn’t at the mo as after a bit DS gets too worked up. But that’s exactly what worked for DS1, DP basically just took over at night and he was sleeping through in days, difference was he was 11.5 months! I can’t do six more months of this this time around 🙈

@bigpawsjames thank you, going to look into her today!

Solidarity OP, I could have written your post word for word myself. My DH decided to 9ver dramatise 'tummy ache' last night too so of course he had to go and sleep 8n another room....he room where he claims it's impossible to hear the baby or the 3yo.

I was tag teaming last night between 45m wakes with baby then toddler at least 3 times as well, too.

All the coffee your way!

My 18 month old is fed to sleep and he has been sleeping through reliably since 10 months. My eldest was the same - he actually slept better as an older baby/young toddler when fed or cuddled to sleep than when left to settle himself. I know every baby is different but the whole logic of sleep associations just didn't seem to apply to my babies. Mine sleep better if they're calm and happy when they fall asleep at the start of the night.

I do find a bottle in the evening helps them go a bit longer once they're used to it, though. My DS just seemed to take more from a bottle so it would fill him up for a bit longer, rather than snacking on breastmilk all night. Solids will have a similar effect eventually but at the start they'll only have a tiny bit to eat, so weaning probably won't have an immediate effect on sleep.

At 5.5 months you might be coming up to moving the baby into their own room. That can help because you don't get up for every tiny little squeak.

Ah ok- so DP knows he held the key last time. That's hard its not working so far. We did tolerate plenty of in-arms crying- in my mind that was more acceptable than 'in-cot' crying- baby knows DP is there he's just not getting what he wants- boob! Good luck, I feel for you- nearly sent me insane!

I'm probably not the person you want answering as my 3 year old has had poor sleep since about 2 weeks old.

She has severe silent reflux and multiple food allergies. The silent reflux absolutely destroys her sleep and the only way we get good patches of sleep is by getting her reflux adequately treated. Unfortunately for us at the moment despite high dose meds she doesn't sleep and is awake 2-3 times a night and only sleeps if I'm cuddling her.

I would explore things like silent reflux before going down sleep training routes.

One symptom of silent reflux we didn't notice until about 18 months was comfort eating. She definitely was doing this when she was a baby. Massive feeds a bed time trying to sooth the discomfort but for all the extra milk to cause more reflux driving her to want more milk then more reflux. It is horrible having to curtail amounts for fluid she has in one go but I did improve her reflux and sleep

Could be be in pain or discomfort? My EBF baby didn't cry much but had quite smelly poos and once I cut out dairy she slept way better. I think discomfort from reflux was keeping her up.

Mine both went through phases like this. What I do is get them a really good contact nap in the day, either on me on the sofa or in the carrier if I've got stuff to do, 2-3 hours if possible in the middle of the day. At that age of course there will be another little nap in the morning and late afternoon probably. When my toddler was at nursery I'd join the baby for a nap in the big bed.

When they're overtired they need a big sleep to break the pattern and they want to be close to you so that's why I do this. Then, co sleep at night moving baby into their own sleep space in a next to me style crib if you like when fall back asleep. It maximises your sleep that way and gradually they trust you're there and they sleep sounder and for longer periods. What your baby is asking for isn't solids, or to be left to cry, or anything else. They're small and vulnerable and asking for their mum.

Sleep deprivation is so hard, but this will be a phase op.

@89redballoons unfortunately he’s moving into a room with his older brother so we aren’t planning on moving him until he’s more settled! I’m going to try to move the crib away from the bed though and see if that helps. That’s good to hear you’ve been able to continue feeding to sleep, it does feel like a magic power and it works perfectly for his naps so I would be sad to lose it. But it does seem like the root of our issues so I’m torn

@headcheffer He naps really well! He’ll do a two hour nap at lunch with minimal settling (my eldest never did this so this is amazing to me). I do need to start napping more with him though while oldest is at pre school so that I feel less sleep deprived.

Both my babies sept on me - was the only way- I the transferred them to sleep next to me but on their tummy’s- I know it’s not advised but was the only way they’d settle.

It sounds like he can't connect sleep cycles so needs to BF to get back to sleep at the end of each sleep cycle? So if you can disconnect the two, that should help. Presumably weight gain going ok so he's getting enough milk as it sounds like he is settling after feeds, and the problem is not connecting sleep cycles?

Personally, I'd sleep train. Look at the bigger picture - do you drive? A friend had a baby like this (and without a toddler to also deal with) and ended up crashing on the motorway because of sleep deprivation. Sleep is also crucial for everyone's wellbeing and your baby's development.

Sleep training isn't leaving them to cry for hours. We did the pause method where you wait seconds if they start to stir and see if they're hungry or if they go back to sleep.

You're a dummy substitute not a feed I'd work on not letting him feed to sleep and putting down awake. You can still stay next to him or someone can sitting with a gentle hand on then when he's used to that remove the hand.
I'd wean as well.

I forgot to put the things that haven't helped us.
Weaning - not helped by her having no more than 2 spoons of food a day until 13 months when she ate her first meal!
Switching from breastmilk to formula. We did this at 10 months 3-5 wake ups a night on a good night on breastmilk and exactly the same on formula
Stopping feeding too sleep. She still wakes up in the same time frames whether she had a breastfeed or bottle feed before getting into bed. Ditto in the night

She started with a pillow at 11 months under medical advice and this helped. She also slept better once she could roll on to her tummy. This was when she went from 10 wake ups a night to 5. Cosleeping saved us and she was happier to be cuddled back to sleep instead of feeding when in bed with us

My partner could only get her to sleep by wearing her in a sling which took some of the pressure off me.

I started speaking to Emily from fox and moon but I didn't pay for a consultation in the end as a medication change improved her sleep at the same time.

I'm going to pin myself to

1. Wait it out, know it’s a phase and will pass

I tried everything. Everything. I went back to work at 8 months and it was so much hard work but nothing worked. Until he got to 2 years old and magically startled sleeping all the way through the night overnight.

Not what you want to hear but since then we've never had the problem again, and to be honest by the time we had got to 2 years I was so used to functioning on bad sleep that I couldn't sleep properly myself.

Solidarity though because it's shit.

We're having similar problems with my 6.5 month old so I'm following with interest. We've started weaning but he isn't having much yet and no difference. He definitely cries for boob when he's tired as he likes to feed to sleep, I guess I need to work on a different sleep association but not sure where to start and its hard to think when so tired!