AIBU to believe FIL time slip experience?

[elsiesbonnet]

FIL was round yesterday evening for dinner with his wife. We were talking about the Uncanny podcast & recent TV episode then he told us of two experiences he'd had in the same place a number of years apart. After I went & did some research & asked a couple questions today, he's told us of another experience he had in the same place that was similar to one of the other experiences but that happened when he as a child.

I'm quite sceptical about paranormal type events I guess because I've never witnessed anything myself but am generally quite open minded. I don't believe FIL to be the type to make this sort of thing up & he was almost unwilling to tell us in case we thought he was crazy. He's never told anyone before.

AIBU to think what he experienced could've been real? In one of the instances he interacted with people in the past, his recall was quite genuine & he had some significant detail that you couldn't just make up. Has anyone else experienced a time slip or some other paranormal event they couldn't explain? I'm intrigued!

You can discuss someones thoughts and ideas without needing to call a person out.

Argue the point not the person

I acknowledge the validity of that philosophic position, that nothing is knowable and everything is possible, but I do think people tend to apply it in an uneven manner.

I don’t mean to put words in your mouth and my apologies if I’m doing so (particularly as I haven’t gone back through the thread to remind myself as to who has said what) but I understand your position on the Bold Street issue to broadly be:

‘Some people have claimed to have experienced time slips on Bold Street and therefore we ought to recognize the possibility that this is a real phenomenon’.

However, we can’t actually prove that anyone has ever made the claim (you or I could just be perceiving that the claim was made). We can’t prove the people said to be making the claims actually exist nor can we prove that Bold Street is a real place.

In essence, I feel as though more evidentiary weight is being given to these spectacular third-party claims than to anything else in (what we perceive to be) existence.

Yes, it was me. I haven’t said whether or not I believe in any of the topics discussed in this thread. What I do believe in is basic good manners and that means not making personal comments about people and their opinions.

Seeing as you have called people who don't believe you pig ignorant, it's a bit rich really.

The original quote was
Anyone who tells you all tarot readers cold read, lies or is pig ignorant.

I do consider it pig ignorant to tell people that something they have experienced and can do is not real, based on the fact they have not experienced it and Derran Brown tells them so.

Incidentally this is also an example of how you argue the point not the person.

@Againstmachine I found your posts a bit aggressive (I haven't reported you!) You seemed to go off on a tangent about charlatans taking money from people by deception, when nobody on here has suggested anything of the sort. If anything it's been a chance for people to talk about something that they experience freely, without embarrassment, because we know we'd be mocked for talking about it in person.
I know I experience these things, but I equally can't stand the ones who profit from it and don't believe them myself half the time. I dont see how they can predict things at will or read people. So that to me, is as bonkers as me saying I just get random premonitions pop into my head, to you. But just because I can't do that, so I have doubts, it doesn't mean I would insult somebody talking about it on here. Nobody has anything to gain from it here.
Plus I couldn't stand Derek Acorah or any of the other TV mystics! Mumsnet posters don't compare.

Ah another who lets any old shit go but is a pearl clutcher.

Let all these bullshitters spout there shit but call out the sensible people.

@Againstmachine What? 🤣 I don't think anybody would ever call me a pearl clutcher, but ok.
If you think we're all batshit for believing what we've experienced then move along.
I hope if you ever walk past a gypsy booth, when she's sat in there with her crystal ball. That you shout out loud that she's a batshit, con artist. Rage against it in real life too! Go for it. Call it out for all the 'sensible people' 😆 I'd agree with you, but I wouldn't say it. I'd just stand there clutching my pearls.

Go to bed. When you're in a hole best to stop digging.

I’m rude to you, when you said the following to me, completely unprovoked??!

It's just not that complex, and you're not that special. Because lets face it, that's the root issue here: I see ghosts, I'm so special. I predict deaths, I'm so special. I have mad coincdences, I'm so special.

No, we all have untrustworthy senses, weird brains, and see things that aren't there, miss things that are, and make connections and explanations that aren't true. You don't see dead people, and you're not at all special.

Ok then! I always find it odd when I enter a thread, make a point that is in no way personal or directed to anyone in particular, and then some poster starts aggressively quoting me and acting outraged when I dare to respond in kind!

I can see what you’re getting at. I haven’t commented specifically about the Bold Street phenomena as I don’t know enough about it. However, applying a solipsistic philosophy to a situation like that would be I can’t be sure anything exists outside of me so I could have created a city, Liverpool, a Street Bold street, a story, the time slip all the characters etc. but it would still be real because that is what reality is. We would even have constructed the idea of cities and streets.

this would be the extreme. It would be possible to see a part way position where some people can create a subjective reality that might or might not be shared by others within what is otherwise an objective reality.

or maybe it is an objective reality but many (and increasing numbers) can't see it for whatever reason.

it’s fascinating when we star to consider how much of what we perceive as reality is actually constructed in our minds and therefore how much we can alter

Nobody has anything to gain from it here.

They do, they have their belief system which requires shoring up by other people. Those with hard-to-evidence beliefs often experience differing viewpoints as personal attacks, as seen on this thread. It also happens a lot in the religion board, in any discussion about transgenderism, and in those crazy American disputes with trump aficionados. Going back in time, the Church routinely killed people for querying its doctrine, as some branches of Islam do today.

And, with all due deference, there is something of the "I'm special" about it. As an analogy, I write. On a good day my text will write itself, as the saying goes. The experience matches accounts of divine inspiration (or any other kind of inspiration); it genuinely feels like somebody else is writing through me. While it's far from rare to have this kind of imagination - because that's what it is - I consider myself to be lucky and, yes, it is something I think is 'special'.

The difference is that people with creative inspiration have a document, an artwork, a movie, a song to show at the end of it. It seems extremely rare for people with the gift of foresight to create time-stamped evidence of their premonitions, which could be checked against subsequent events. Then they wouldn't need to defend their powers so ferociously!

As a skeptic (and as someone who does believe that the vast majority of people who make money out of psychic readings, communicating with the dead and alike are knowing fraudsters), I am equally sure that many people do genuinely believe they have some sort of extra sensory ability. I don’t believe that they actually do have these abilities but I don’t think they are liars and fraudsters, nor would I call them such.

One thing that’s has stuck with me (both from my own experience in accompanying someone to a reading and, later, watching relevant tv shows…not Derren) is how easily some people will forget all the ‘misses’ but and only remember the ‘hits’.

I.e., where a psychic gets 10 things wrong for every one they get right, the person having the reading will often leave it absolutely amazed at the psychic’s accuracy - clinging hard to the rare instances where the psychic was right and seemingly instantly dismissing, forgetting or ignoring the many, many instances where the psychic was completely wrong.

I imagine that similar occurs when people asses their own abilities.

With all due respect I’m not sure you really understand divination. There are many types of divination, traditionally most require a level of personal meditation and interpretation.

Or are you talking about clairvoyance/audience? I don’t think anyone coming out and claiming such experiences is claiming to be anything special.

people come to talk to others who share the same beliefs, not to feel special but to talk through their experiences without being side tracked by people being disrespectfully sceptical - it’s tiresome and boring. It can be very stimulating talking to some sceptics of course.

why does writing make you feel special? Do you feel special in a room full of writers or is it a great opportunity to discuss things with people with shared interests and experiences

Im not sure if personally I do gain anything in terms of shoring up. If I posted on this thread or not

I'm not sure it's special either. I have trouble believing other people dont have these experiences because they are so normal to me and wonder if because they believe they are impossible they attribute them to chance or coincidence. In then wonder if some people are more sensitive and some people are less sensitive so genuinely they don't have them.

It bothers me that threads like these tend to get ridiculed by sceptics and I do think that needs challenging. You can be interested in science, be intelligent and believe in woo.

What I have never done is doubt the stuff I have experienced, I know there's been some weird shit, so I haven't ever needed it "shoring up".

@GarlicGrace The issue I have with the "I'm special" thing, is that I really don't think it is special. I actually think it's something that everybody has the ability to realise. I also don't see it as a special gift. One I had in particular will plague me until the day I die.
I don't tell anybody apart from DH and my mum. It wouldn't be seen as 'special' at all, everyone would think I was either crackers or a complete bullshitter. Unless I tried to prove myself and why would I want to do any of that? To what end?
The only way I 'document' it, is to tell my DH or my mum when I have them, in as much detail as I can (unless it's something really terrible) We are always trying to work out how or why I might have 'seen' something, or look at how it could just be a coincidence. Occasionally we can come up with a rational explanation, but not usually. They've both seen me do it too many times to not believe me.
I don't need the acceptance or for it to be reinforced by strangers. It's not a religion or a belief system. These things happen to me. I don't want them to. But I accept them and I'm trying to make sense of them. So I'm open to listening to scientific explanation, thats the only thing to be gained from this and a comfort that there may be others who experience the same. Because its actually quite scary.

why does writing make you feel special? Do you feel special in a room full of writers

No, because not all writers experience this but many do. And a roomful of writers doesn't talk about writing or share ideas (in case someone nicks them!) It makes me feel 'special' because it's an intensely personal experience and I think I'm quite lucky to have it. Would be luckier to have it every time I write, mind you.

MN has had many threads where members talk about being able to live in an imaginary world, to the extent they can really believe themselves starring in a glamorous movie or being the heroic doctor in a dreadful emergency while actually doing their housework or commuting. I really envy that! It's a special gift, imo.

I do think many people on this thread have seriously underestimated the wonders of the human mind.

Yes, I’m always surprised that more people don’t have such experiences, I suspect many more do but are afraid of ridicule or are convicted to explain things away,

And yes some of the most intelligent people I know are believers in the paranormal in different ways. Most will happily discuss a broad range of topics from philosophy to politics from history to literature to theoretical physics to astronomy.

I think being able to create an alternative universe is extremely common, I have a permanent film running in my head I can access whenever I want. The question is is this real?

I don’t think people are underestimating the human mind. The difference lies in the understanding of what the human mind is and what it is actually doing and it’s purpose

I have a permanent film running in my head I can access whenever I want. The question is is this real?

Very good question, @Maatandosiris. Obviously I'd say no, much as it may feel real. But how much more or less real is it than the paranormal experiences retold here?

I accept [my premonitions] and I'm trying to make sense of them. So I'm open to listening to scientific explanation - that makes you a rarity, @Fionaville!

I also had a premonition like experience. I was visiting a friend who’d just had her first baby and was living in a city at the time. In the premonition her and I were at a park overlooking the sea, she had two little boys and I had two little girls who were younger than her boys. It was very vivid but only lasted seconds, it had such an impact on me that I told my friend at the time. I was 20 and having children was not on my agenda at that time. In time my friend had another son and moved to a seaside town and I had two daughters. I visited her there and the exact premonition happened. Very spooky!

Interesting that you are apparently holding yourself out as one of the “sensible people” yet you haven’t managed to raise a single point of debate on the topic. All you’re intent on doing is shouting abuse.

interestingly spiritual people generally like discussion, they are usually happy to discuss points with respectful individuals. You don’t seem able to extend the same courtesy.

you don’t need shutting down because it appears you have nothing to say.,

I doubt anyone will be engaging further with you so good night and sweet dreams

I don't underestimate the human mind at all. But I do think that we are the era of the mind when actually we don't understand the mind at all.

It's all too easy to write something off as being based in the mind whilst ignoring real life environmental and body impacts.

Much of life may happen as a result of synapse firing in the brain, but why they fire is another question