To think Britain should start growing it’s own food again?

[Vocaladvocaat]

The situation in the Ukraine clearly isn’t going to resolve any time soon. The lack of grain from Ukraine is pushing prices higher. Add in further political instability in other parts of the world to the mix. We are always told that IK farming isn’t competitive but with the rising prices, it can be and furthermore; having home grown produce is seeming like it will be more necessary in the future. AIBU?

Absolutely zero chance of reducing our population.

First of all, we’re only at the start of the migration crisis. Last year, net migration was 600,000. That’s more than the population of Manchester. Africa has the highest birth rate in the world. In fact, the African population is set to double. I believe African women have five children, on average. In some countries the average is seven! Even if we managed to halve the numbers coming in, that’s still more than a quarter of a million extra people each year.

Second, radical life extension is going to transform society. Right now, serious people are working on life-extending drugs (Google senolytics, for example), and lifespans of 120, or even 130, could soon be the norm. This isn’t wacky sci fi. It’s really coming. Billions are being poured into research. David Sinclair, a professor at Harvard, recently said lifespans of 150 could soon be common. In other words, people won’t be dying and making room.

I have a horrible feeling that if humanity doesn’t reduce its numbers, nature will do it for us.

I believe African women have five children, on average. In some countries the average is seven!

If you don't have a pension, you need your kids to look after you in old age.

And if you live somewhere with high infant mortality, you need to be sure some of your kids make it to adulthood.

Women in this country also had large families in the past. Nowadays they don't. See above for the reasons.

I have a horrible feeling that if humanity doesn’t reduce its numbers, nature will do it for us.

This is the inconvenient truth. We are a blight on the planet and it isn't sustainable. Everyone worries about current levels of immigration, and its laughable. Climate change only has to raise the average temperature by a degree or two more and then vast areas of the planet become uninhabitable. All those people will move further north or further south. Then we will really see migration.

To a certain degree immigration is the answer to demographic issues which may trip us up before climate issues in the northern part of the world. But obviously to house extra people it means building a lot more things which then impacts on the environment.

I supported a charity for a many years who help keep girls in education longer in parts of Africa, it's hugely important.

But at the same time we also need a lot more young people here working. There are massive labour shortages and it is seriously affecting productivity and GDP. The problem is we have a ton of older people who are economically inactive and by far the biggest users of the NHS, and live for a long time while being not particularly healthy. And statistically those are the people who have voted against immigration. How many does matter but how many are working also matters.

I actually think we need more older prople working. There is a lot of prejudice still within companies about older workers and the over 50's but we need to have a shift to much more flexible and part time work to enable more older people to work. Part of the issue with thececonomicalky inactive is that there are 7 million people in NHS waiting lusts. Most will be able to work, but many will be off sick, and many will need time off sick waiting for treatment. I dont know how many young people are economically inactive, but the ones I know are either in education or at work. They can more or less walk into a job as long as they put in some effort. Many are educated out of jobs like agricultural work.

Girls education is the single most important driver is a country's prosperity and population reduction. Nothing works like it. 👍 So girls education is the best answer to millions of young men in African countries not being able to find work and coming to Europe, and global population reduction, as the birthrate is only growing in a few countries in sub saharan Africa.

Trouble is the elderly will be the least able to do physically demanding work. We need to find a way of getting fitter younger people to do the manual/physical work where there are shortages and get the older people to do the less physical "sitting down" jobs. With the stupid push for more and more youngsters to go to uni or higher education, the worker/job market is upside down as it's younger workers who tend not to want to get their hands dirty and older ones who've not had the education nor training to do the mentally demanding work in retirement as they didn't have the same uni/education opportunities 40/50 years ago.

There is a difference between the elderly and the retired- Someone in their 50's and 60s ( and they are the ones quitting work) could have another 30+ years not working. Our pensions are unsustainable for that length of time, with fewer under 15 year olds in the country than over 60's. The over 50s have oceans of experience, as you say. Some of the problems we have with skilling the workforce is that there is no one to train them. Training Someone to be a plumber is not as physically demanding as actually being a plumber and can be done very part time. But that won't solve the problem of not enough people working in agriculture. It is a skilled job to do fast, but is also seasonal and poorly paid, so most suited to a transient population, and prople who are prepared to do back breaking work low pay and ling hours. I think technology may be the answer there but that also means greenhouses and alternative food production methods.

Nobody wants to work on farms.

Nobody wants their livelihood to depend on physical labour. You don't know what's round the corner health-wise. Don't take your strength or mobility for granted.

I went to university 20 years ago. So did everyone l knew. I had a very mentally challenging career.

Agree.

I also think big supermarkets put huge pressure on farmers. But we all have choices. Some people recon really limited incomes and have to buy what they can afford.

I recently bought a load of fruit from a British orchard. Gave me satisfaction to buy it like that .

Check labels at the supermarket. E.g Fresh fruit and veg from Redmere farms at Tesco are not necessarily British grown, despite the British sounding label. Sneaky practices in my view.

You have to persuade people to eat what's in season and grown here.
I've done this as long as I can remember. If we can grow it then I don't buy imported, so I do buy oranges but no winter strawberries, I never buy organic but I do buy free range eggs and chicken.
You don't have to live on parsnips because frozen veg is perfectly fine, but I never buy imported blueberries or any other fruit and veg.
I grow a lot myself.

You have to persuade people to eat what's in season and grown here.

Yes We can't even get people to eat fish other than cod, never mind spend all enter eating turnips!.

Yeah, fuck that.

If cod became unaffordable for the average household, what choice would there be?

If turnips were a quarter of the price of cucumbers, resourceful people would eat them.

I would never eat a turdnip. Not even if they were free. They taste vile.

You can make any veg taste better with lashings of butter and salt. Microwave turnip whole / roast if the oven is on anyway. Scoop out insides mash with lots of butter and salt. Can also add cut it with cooked carrots or regular mashed potatoes.

I can't comment on turnips, but I do like other kinds of fish. Most of them taste good. With the exception of sardines and whitebait. Who eats fishes bones????

I’ve tried all that. They are still vile.

They are just a nothing veg. Trying to be a potato but tasting horrible. Trying to be a carrot but still tasting horrible.

I am cutting out supermarkets as much as I can. Earlier I was just reading another thread on Mumsnet from August. Supermarkets charge £10 for a free range chicken that they bought for about £3.50, screwing over the farmer. Plus they are importing more food with lower standards.

I buy a meat box every month which now includes eggs, and have decided I am buying fruit from the British orchard directly.

I very much blame supermarkets. I wish people would wake up in their purchase decisions, because once these orchards, growers, producers have gone, we are stuffed.

But we could all do with checking what we buy, when we can. Takes 2 seconds to check a label.

Cavolo nero has become ridiculously popular despite being vile, so perhaps we just need to give turnips an Italian name.

Agree we should.

Maybe school leavers should do a year of national service, but working on a farm instead of being in the army.