To think Britain should start growing it’s own food again?

[Vocaladvocaat]

The situation in the Ukraine clearly isn’t going to resolve any time soon. The lack of grain from Ukraine is pushing prices higher. Add in further political instability in other parts of the world to the mix. We are always told that IK farming isn’t competitive but with the rising prices, it can be and furthermore; having home grown produce is seeming like it will be more necessary in the future. AIBU?

(That was for Random Buttons but I can't c&p on my phone) ^

You can lose it for the next 40 years to a solar farm though. I'm in one England's most productive growing areas and there are some big chunks of growing land that are being given over to solar.

And it's typically land that's ALC Grade 1-3. I'm guessing from your name/comment you already know what that means. For those who don't, it ranges from the very best land that has no limitations on what can be grown on it, down to land that consistently produces moderate to high yields but of a narrower range of crops. In other words, you can grow food on it.

At planning I've repeatedly seen councillors and communities wrestling with the dilemma of needing to produce renewable energy AND needing to produce food. One council near me has now come down on the side of food production after they approved several solar projects one after another but then several more appeared. Other councils have not.

FWIW I've already got some back garden solar and am saving my pennies to cover the roof so I'm not being an anti-renewables NIMBY here. We need solar as part of our energy mix. But we also need food and I don't think we've got the balance right at the moment.

Every hectare of productive arable that goes to energy production could mean more reliance on food imports. And if overseas supplies are disrupted, countries will feed their own people before they feed the UK. Let's not kid ourselves either that all the schemes are about saving the planet: it can be far more lucrative for landowners to produce energy than to grow food. I've also seen some play down land as "only" Grade 3 in applications even though it's land that has been successfully producing tonnes of food for generations.

At least though, there's a chance the land can revert to agri use in a few decades. We can't say the same when the land becomes a housing estate!

Yes thats what I thought. Bread was a staple in the Middle Ages. Im not sure how much was made with wheat imported from Ukraine! Itb mush have been able to be grown here. Granted we have a much larger population, so probably didnt produce as much, but the population fed itself with the carb available ( bread here, rice in Asia)

People also need to be housed!

There are more golf courses than housing per acre

The problem is too big really. We did not have the right climate for many crops so we will always need to trade with other countries

I used to grow vegetables, but the climate changes made it much harder. There would be a whole month of rain in February, turning soil in mud. Then no rain at all through April, meaning having to water every day. Excessive heat through July and incredibly wet Autumn. The UK used to have an ideal climate for so many fruits and vegetables - bit of sun, gentle showers all year long. Not anymore.
I might try again, but a more self reliant country would take everyone trying, on every bit of land they have, and I agree with the pp who said most people just turn their outdoor space into sterile rooms with plastic sofas. Or hard standing for parking. Most people have no sense of what it takes to grow food, what is in season, why pollinators are important or how the wonky weather is affecting the availability of food.
I find it very scary.

They will have less to sell or it'll cost more.
They use gas heated greenhouses for food production.

As anyone who has ever taken the ferry to the Hook of Holland and seen the farms located near the port will attest, produce in the Netherlands is grown in huge greenhouses, not in polytunnels.

This is possible because much of the land used for the greenhouses is reclaimed land, so it is flat and easy to site greenhouses on - try building these on a hillside. There is also a ready and clean supply of water, which is vital for these greenhouse crops. By contrast, much of the south of England has a shortage of water and is not particularly flat.

Sure we can be self-sufficient, if we all learn to be content with a diet of oats, turnips and herring. I don't think many people would agree to do that.

Lots of great points and interesting views on this thread:-
might be worth saying I was alluding to rising prices generally, which has been caused by a variety of factors.

Interesting that if I said this in France or Spain I would get a very different reaction to the mostly negative one here. I get they have different values, weather etc. As I said before, it’s a complex subject but the problems can be overcome.

Firmly tongue in cheek here but rather than dumping sewage in rivers and sea, maybe the Tories could add some nutrients to soil with it instead?

@Vocaladvocaat Using sewage sludge cake as a soil amendment and fertiliser is standard practice.

May be of interest:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/united-kingdom-food-security-report-2021/united-kingdom-food-security-report-2021-theme-2-uk-food-supply-sources

We are in a fairly good situation re grains, wheat, barley and oats. As for ‘wasting’ land on organically grown food, or what our grandparents would have known as ‘food’, the real waste is on golf courses. More allotments would help too.

I am sure the interest in allotments etc is because people are struggling to feed their families. Have friends who constantly get food from their gardens (albeit limited choice) there is no question that you can grow a fair amount of food in a smallish area if you want to

Thanks, that’s really interesting!

Saying organic farming wastes land isn’t very helpful language, but it’s certainly a less efficient use of land as the crops grown organically generally yield less output per hectare. For example wheat grown conventionally will yield around 8 tonnes per hectare, but wheat grown organically will barely make 5 tonnes. So you need almost twice as much land to grow the equivalent quantity. One could see that as wasteful, but either way it’s less efficient.

Often the varieties of wheat grown in Scotland are destined for biscuit making or animal feed. There isn't enough sunshine to grow the kinds of wheat to make decent bread. Overall we grow more than 80% of our wheat which isn't bad atall.

Pleaseme time to go back to bannocks??

Pasta isn’t generally made in this county. It’s mostly imported ready made from Italy, from wheat grown in Italy. Italy seems very happy to keep selling it to us so I’m not entirely sure what your point is.

And most our bread wheat is imported from Canada.

Efficiency can be measured in the short or long term, and organic farming may yet prove to be more efficient in the long term as soils are damaged and nutrients are depleted.

There have been in depth studies into using sewage as fertiliser. Killing bacteria can be a problem but it can be done. But the problem is basically consumers are mortified at the thought of it.

Most consumers apparently don't know that our shit already fertilises fields - with lots of testing & monitoring & rotation & harvest intervals.
Our sewerage infrastructure would be in an even more dire situation if disposal to land wasn't used.

It'd be nice if we ate our own fish, to be honest. The fish that was such a big deal during Brexit but we won't buy?

I think the seafood/fish is a cultural thing. It's been generations since we've had the dietary habits & shopping time & culinary skills to make the most of our coastal resources. And our seas are still massively over-fished in an industrial fashion, so it's not something that we want to build back up to be honest.

What we need is a cross-party consensus on a long term sustainable land use framework.
And a serious move into producing alternative protein sources in an industrial fashion - urban fish farming, insects, yeast products. To supplement regenerative farming production.

Of course you're not being unreasonable. Under the good old EU farmers were paid huge subsidies (2.4 billion a year) for not producing food. Because all the food waste and disposing of the food waste in the 1970's and 80's was an embarrassment. No farming competition. No needs to invest in the future of farming. Laziness and corruption. Feeding cows sub-standard food that led to the "mad cows disease" CJV scandal in 1980's. Time all farmers started farming, and not just owning land they're paid to do nothing productive with. Not tarnishing the hard-working farmers, just the idle ones who lived off the EU non-productivity rewards and now want to sell their land to a Labour Government for housing.

They want to build on green belt not necessarily farm land. They want to reclassify some current green belt to brown belt.