Would you go to London

[limey234]

We have a tourist trip booked in half term. Lots of museums, the tube, shops, tourist destinations with our two kids (under 7).

Would you go? Given the situation in the world right now.

My husband barely watches or reads any news. He doesn't understand why I'm nervous.

I think we should postpone it. I'm a bit nervous of being caught up in a protest, or other activity.

Great post @EnidSpyton and I really admire your patience in having taken the time to explain it so well.

Visibly Jewish I assume refers to Haredi Jews who are very distinctive in terms of their clothing and hair (long curls over the ears for men and wigs for married women) and Jewish men who wear yarmulkes.

This is exactly how I feel about it.

A bit of a digression from the thread (and the OP isn't particularly guilty) but the casual "othering" of London and Londoners concerns me. While there are plenty of justified reasons for people to feel resentful of the disproportionate wealth and power concentrated in London, this seems to have translated into carte blanche to talk about Londoners in a way which would shock people if directed at immigrants.

I've lost count of the posts I see on here where people pile up to say what a "horrible" place London is (usually based on one or two visits to heavily crowded tourist destinations during the height of summer). Even people who are more nuanced about it seem to take as read that its an intrinsically scary place to visit where you need your wits about you at all times (and ideally a rape alarm) and stabbings occur at every street corner.

Think about the way people from Liverpool reacted to being dissed for a sense of "victim status" by Boris Johnson when he was the major of London. Liverpudlians rightly took great offence at this and people rallied to their cause. Everyone understood that you don't write off an entire city of millions of people, much as you wouldn't write off a country or an ethnic group with a casual insult. But for some reason it's OK when its London and I'm sick of it.

All human life is here in London and the vast majority of people here live very normal lives with their families and go to work. We're not obscenely rich or feral and we don't all espouse extreme causes and we're not all desperate to colonise your chocolate box villages. Most of us actually like living here: it suits us fine thanks very much and we don't really care if you don't like it. We are pretty much like you and we don't appreciate being made to feel as if we live in some bizarre combination of downtown Aleppo and Manhattan.

London was fab yesterday and today - lots of families and young people enjoying the autumn sunshine. We can't hide away because of something that might happen - that is not living.

Hear hear!

Just for the record I don't have any issue with London as such. It's just it's the closest large city to my house and happens to be where we are going in half term. I'd probably feel similar to Paris or Manchester at moment. If there's going to be trouble, it's not likely to be some sleepy village in Sussex.

I went a few weeks ago and felt safe and happy as a visitor.

@limey234

That wasn't particularly directed at you OP, you're not the worst offender by a long chalk but I do think the general perception of London as a highly dangerous place to be avoided if there's any whiff of geopolitical unrest is a byproduct of a generally negative attitude to London.

I also do think and will continue to reiterate that unless you go and place yourself at the epicentre of a protest march the risks are vanishingly small.

Tbh it wouldn’t have crossed my mind. You will always be more likely to encounter trouble in a large city than a small town, but I’d say the actual risk to the general public is low and it wouldn’t put me off going.

there are protests all the time in London on the whole they’re easy to avoid or join depending on your feelings about them. If I could get the time off work I’d go.

@Thepeopleversuswork

Again to emphasise I love London.

This is not a “whiff of geopolitical unrest”

The largest attack on Jewish people since the holocaust…
Genocide of Palestinians…
War which may draw in other nations.

I am hoping things settle down but it very much depends on the next few weeks.

I wouldn’t go near a protest in my own city either no matter the cause.

@StayorgoLDN

I agree that this is very serious attack on Jewish people and the situation in Israel/Palestine is dire and I wouldn't go near a protest either at the moment. But that's nothing to do with London.

I'm talking about something very different and to be clear I don't think you or the OP are the worst offenders here: which is a general perception that London is intrinsically "dangerous" and that there's a heightened level of being at risk here.

London occupies a huge area of land. Yes you may be more at risk if you're at the pro-Palestinian march or in the middle of Oxford Circus. Or indeed in an area with a known Jewish population like Golders Green or Stamford Hill.

But someone in Crystal Palace or Tufnell Park or Raynes Park or Dollis Hill or East Ham or Greenwich is at no more risk than someone in a quiet Sussex village. Yet no attempt is ever made to distinguish between these areas. They are all lumped together as "London" in some big all encompassing mass of scariness.

Second there seems to be a view that everywhere in London is dirtier and more dangerous than any other equivalent big city just because its London. People who apparently don't feel the same about other major UK cities.

Does anyone have an update for this? Was she reported to the police?

I remember learning in GCSE history that Nazi soldiers used to do this to Jews as they walked past.

Yes it’s true crime stats are worse for North/Northeast England
https://www.statista.com/statistics/866788/crime-rate-england-and-wales-by-region/#:~:text=With%20a%20crime%20rate%20of,at%20133.8%20and%20129.7%20respectively.

London is more polluted than elsewhere. But that is to be expected with the size of population/industry and so forth.
https://www.iqair.com/gb/uk

But this thread, nor the one I started are about attacking London or saying it’s a terrible place to visit.

In both instances they are saying considering the unrest and tension at the moment would it be better to postpone a tourist trip there?

Because there is no sense in spending an enormous amount of money to go and visit somewhere to have that visit disrupted or to put yourself in harms way (as tourists/protesters/nut job terrorists tend to be in the same places).

I don’t think you can do anything about London being the capital/centre of government. That will always make it a target and make tourists feel anxious whenever tensions are high.

Of course I'd go. Why wouldn't you??

[Full disclosure: As an exiled Londoner nothing would cause me to miss out on a trip back home.]

I mean, those statistics (crime rate/1000 people) are only really meaningful in relation to risk if you also know how many people are actually around you ...I expect the danger looks different when you account for population density?

Not that I think it's relevant to the particular concerns of the op.

And if my plans were this weekend I'd still go. My husband grew up London during the time of the IRA. Most of his friends still live there and just get on with their lives. I am aware of the news but that wouldn't stop me- an attack can happen anywhere- not just London (I live in a city) I'd avoid Parliament and embassies but London is a huge place- so easy to go somewhere where being hit by a bus is statistically more likely.

But someone in Crystal Palace or Tufnell Park or Raynes Park or Dollis Hill or East Ham or Greenwich is at no more risk than someone in a quiet Sussex village. Yet no attempt is ever made to distinguish between these areas. They are all lumped together as "London" in some big all encompassing mass of scariness.

Tbf I always think when people refer to London they mean central eg z1. In the same way when you think of New York you think of Manhattan.

We have actually got 3 visits to London planned in the next few weeks. A concert, an overnight stay for a special birthday and a Christmas event. To be honest, it had never occurred to me to be concerned until all these threads started appearing on MN 😬

Well I am currently in London, sitting outside a cafe eating a Chelsea Bun. Situation report - no terrorists.

Well I did my shopping. Only saw a pizza delivery guy with a Palestinian flag on his bike and some white woman with a Palestine badge on her jacket. I’m in an area with a large Muslim community.

Nothing else to see but there are large demos on either side of us that I’m aware of but haven’t seen/heard anything of these.

About 9 million of us live here every day. It's fine 😊

I'm not in London and a large parade related to the situation in Israel/Gaza strip just passed under my window.

I didn't go out to get an ice cream as I had planned earlier in the day, but only because I couldn't be bothered putting a bra and trousers on and hadn't done enough exercise earlier this morning to justify the calories. If I had wanted to, I could easily have crossed through the parade--or arrived at the ice cream cart via several other routes.

But if that's true that's ridiculous. Greater London has something like 9 million people and a very small proportion of them live in zone 1. As is the case with most megacities.

Surely people should be able to grasp the difference.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t just when people talk about going to London for the day or a trip or to see some sights etc they mean central as opposed to Raynes Park.

Poor girl who had to experience that. I hope that woman was reported to the transport police as in my experience muslim women don’t really report these kinds of things because it’s same old, same old but it’s really important that we do for our safety.