WTF? £600 winter fuel allowance for all pensioners!

[user1497207191]

No wonder the country has no money and the deficit/debt is getting bigger.

MIL just phoned up saying she'd got a letter telling her £600 was on the way to her and asking why, when she doesn't need it?

Just why??? She's not claiming means tested benefits. Her state and her husband's occupational pension are already far more than she needs to live on, meaning she saves a few hundred pounds a month into ISAs (which already stand at over £100k). Owns her own house, so no rent/mortgage.

Why the hell can't this money be directed at those who actually need it or more worthy causes? It's insane to keep throwing money at people who don't need it.

She doesn't need it, she doesn't want it. She wouldn't miss it if it wasn't paid to her.

If they can means test the child benefit and claw it back from those earning over £50k, why can't they come up with a way of ensuring winter fuel allowance is only paid to those who may need it? Why not only paid to those pensioners claiming pension credits, or rent allowance, or whatever?

Thank you for posting this.

When you say 'a hell of a lot' you actually mean 'some', and as another poster has pointed out, they pay tax on their pensions and investment income, and will have paid a fair amount of tax and NIC during their working lives.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Wut?
Income tax is due (by anyone, not just pensioners) once you earn over £12,570.00 p.a. Do you think anyone on £12,571.00 p.a. should also not receive any benefit payment, or do you just reserve that logic for pensioners?

Oh don't be so stupid, of course having offspring (as you so strangely call it) is a choice. It's not part of life for many many sensible people who choose not to have children

But they're not paying NIC on their pensions nor investment income,.

It's high time NIC was scrapped and income tax rates increased to compensate.

It's crazy that a pensioner with an income of £50k pays much less tax (and NIC IS a tax), less than a worker on £50k wages!

You said she has a husband? Who has an occupational pension. Presumably she lives with him or is he the husband who passed away?

Not everyone gets child benefit - it's means tested in a stupid manner so that if one parent earns more than £50k part (or whole) has to be paid back!

If people did not have children there would be not be enough workers (ie. Taxpayers) to pay for the pensioners of tomorrow. The state pensions are being paid for by current workers, the economy needs people to have children in order to produce the next generation of taxpayers.

Probably a widow when she said "husbands pension", probably means her widow's pension based on her husband's occuptional pension.

And then you’d have to cut the link between pensions and qualifying years of NIC payments. I paid NIC for 45 years - that’s two generations’ pensions - without complaint. You can’t just move the goalposts now.

Regarding child benefit, if one parent earns £50k and the other earns nothing = no child benefit.

If both parents work and both earn £49k = they will receive child benefit.

How messed up is that?

Yes, so as I said, child benefit was not paid for every child when I was young.

I would think if one parent earns over £50kl child benefit would not necessarily be needed

Exactly this! Short sighted political games.

They need the votes, and I'm not 100% but I'd think it would be a fair guess that the best voter turn out will be pensioners.

If she doesn't need it I hope she's donating it to a charity who can help someone in need!

I'm all in favour of tax reform. However, it's clear many on this thread are thinking of their own parents and PIL in the early years of retirement - in excellent health and having a lovely time. Good for them. A lifetime of work behind them, why not? Many of them pitch in and do all sorts of voluntary work and help with childcare, and without their contribution we'd be in even more of a mess than we already are. However, there are also a great many retired people in poor health with disabilities, chronic health problems and mobility issues. They need more heating than the rest of us and they may also need to pay for carers and possibly taxis if they can't drive. They can't do their own DIY so may have to pay someone to do things they managed for themselves when younger. I don't grudge older people getting a few tax breaks to help them pay for the extra costs of being old and frail.

I am not suggesting we stop reproducing

But there is a choice to have children when you are financially stable and therefore not need benefits to assist you
Even if it means some of us do not have children

Whereas getting old is never a choice of if and when

Oh don't be so stupid, of course having offspring (as you so strangely call it) is a choice. It's not part of life for many many sensible people who choose not to have children

If everyone stopped having children the government would be introducing massive incentives to get people to have them. The country would be fucked if everyone literally stopped reproducing. Children are the workers and the taxpayers of tomorrow.

'Wealthy' pensioners have already contributed a much larger sum of NI and Tax than most and helped support the people who have not worked/been on benefits/been stay at home mums/claimed child allowance. They deserve to enjoy their retirement without people campaigning for them to cough up even more tax than is normal.

This ^^

Be m wise the only valuable “poor” are the pensioners.

not those “scroungers” UC, or carers allowance or on NMW struggling to rent or even the long term unemployed.

the only people who deserve handouts are pensioners, because they worked hard and apparently the ones who are funding it just doss about for fun 🙄

it’s insulting at this point

Still a choice whether you have children or not though. I really doubt anyone is having children so that future pensions can be paid

Just a couple of points.

I am sure you have researched the incredible interest rate on mortgages in the seventies and eighties, pretty high weren’t they?

I am equally sure that you were shocked to discover that in the sixties , seventies and through part of the eighties it was very hard for single women to get credit, be it for a mortgage, car loan or new washing machine unless she had a male guarantor, didn’t matter who he was or even if he earned less than her, the important thing was he had a penis.

I expect you also discovered that in the seventies only 15 to 19% of young people went into further education, now the figure is above 50%. Most people left school at sixteen, many into low paid manual , clerical,or administrative work. Even “professional” jobs such as teaching, nursing and the police were very low paid. (I was actually financially better off in my last year of University than I was in my first three years of teaching)

I am almost sure you will have looked at womens pay pre the equal pay legislation, and the lack of maternity rights and been shocked not only at the pay gap but at the almost complete absence of maternity rights for working women.

You may looks back on a golden age for baby boomers, and yes for some it was a never to be repeated perfect storm of post war full employment , a very new welfare state that hadn’t been thought through economically from the start, a push to get a better educated workforce, Labour governments, and more generous public housing provision which meant less pressure on private sector housing markets which were therefore kept stable and more accessible.

Also remember that most people didn’t have cars, many didn’t have phones, outside toilets and no bathrooms were common, peoples expectations about holidays, televisions, domestic white goods, eating out, entertainment, smart clothing, home furnishings and decor etc were completely different.

Some things might get worse in the future, but for most people under 50 today they are already a damn sight better than they were in the past for the same age cohort.

I'm giving mine to my DD and DDIL who are on maternity leave so will be a big help to them.

*Yes, so as I said, child benefit was not paid for every child when I was young.

I would think if one parent earns over £50kl child benefit would not necessarily be needed*

But if two parents both earn £49k they would receive CB, whereas families with one working parent on £50k would not. How is that right? It should be on household income rather than individual, and the threshold should be higher.

everything should be means tested apart from disability

its ridiculous that richpensioners are getting this still