To think we should avoid London right now?

[StayorgoLDN]

Due to visit London in the next few weeks.

Anxious with Palestinian protests and so forth in the news. I don’t want to be near that with young children, and worried that it may escalate to some sort of attack.

We are not Jews, but presuming as the U.K. is supporting Israel that we’ll all be fair game ie there might be an attack/bomb somewhere prominent to send a message to gov.

Have been in London during terrorist attacks before and I’d rather avoid.

AIBU to consider rescheduling our family trip to next year?

No, that’s just really insensitive. Me & my 10 year old are no better equipped to respond in a terrorist event/being a victim of crime than you or your children. You’ve made your decision & you’ve posted content intended to frighten Londoners. I think this thread’s done now.

Please don’t be afraid to come into London. The Muslims living here have the same problems as you. We have higher bills, stagnating wages, cost of living woes and usually are supporting family back home and are having to put in extra shifts to pay all these bills. Deal with ageing parents who are in the UK and the same issues all
non Muslims are dealing with in regards to our children’s schooling, friendship woes and hormones. To put it bluntly. We don’t have time to sit around making bombs and smashing up
shops that belong to Jews. Yes, there are a lot of Muslims in London. No we are not all terrorist sympathisers. We are also
concerned for our communities and our children. There has been a rise in comments, threats and violence against Muslims. Because, you know, Muslims are to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world. We are also incredibly worried for our children and their safety in particular. A lot of hand wringing blaming Muslims anywhere in the world for everything. It’s a very very sad time. I love London and have lived here all my life. For the first time in my life I am considering leaving the country as the thinly veiled Islamophobia May just become too much. I lived through the post 9/11 era where life was made hell for us in London. I was much younger and unable to make such a decision. Sorry I’m rambling now.

No it's not, and no it doesn't. Jews are not saying "mere criticism of Israel's policies" is antisemitic. Quite the opposite actually. But this line is parroted so much now it's become the standard - and incorrect - narrative to goad us with and wilfully dismiss what we say when we point out instances of actual antisemitism, both explicit and covert antisemitism.

I'll repeat it again - criticism of Israeli policies is NOT antisemitic.

@MasterBeth

Yes I agree.

I am not concerned so much about being involved directly. My concern is being involved in the disruption which would ruin the expensive trip and be very difficult to deal with for my children.

Was in Gatwick airport about to board the train into London during a previous terror attack, we couldn’t get in after for 1 1/2 days, couldn’t visit all the places we’d planned and had to hire a private cab for transport the entire time plus the added fear.

Was in Paris Charles De Gaulle when there was a terrorist attack and again a few days of a trip lost, similar scenario.

I have had a few very successful and enjoyable trips to London with no issue.

I just don’t know that I want to go when there is quite obvious tension/increased police etc., to pay several thousand to go and be miserable. Particularly with the kids.

@StayorgoLDN I think you've just been very, very unlucky to have been in Paris and London during those attacks so your worries are natural and valid. If it's any consolation I would point out that Paris is much, much more volatile just now than London, and I wouldn't deny your kids the holiday. Perhaps try some activities that are outside central London.

Thank you for clarifying. I absolutely do not condone anti-semitism, just as I do not condone such appalling behavior towards other faith and ethnic groups.

@Bloomingmagnolia Thank you.

I live there and it hasn't crossed my mind. We even live near the Jewish schools that closed last week. We all take risks everyday of our lives. But if it's not essential to come here and you're worried, change your plans. Just be aware it's an irrational decision.

To the people saying that being a local gives no protective advantage.

I will give you an example.

I grew up in NI, things that helped me and my family stay safe

• watching local tv and listening to local radio.
• knowing where all the trouble spots were.
• realising where trouble was liable to be according to whatever contentious issue was in the news - Republican = avoid areas A,B,C. Unionist = avoid areas D,E,F.
• knowing that at meal times riots usually calm down.
• Having friends and family near.
• Having friends and family in roles where they could come and “lift you out”.
• Realising when there would be trouble and stocking your entire house for a week in anticipation, whether or not anything happens.
• Knowing the geography of city centres and local areas so you always know the best way out and where to avoid.

I mean I could go on… we had multiple instances where tourists got themselves in a mess because they didn’t know the area.

The reason Londoners maybe don’t realise they have an advantage and less reason for anxiety than a tourist when faced with a violent protest or similar is that as yet they haven’t had to use it.

Yes we are obviously not going to Paris at the moment 😂😂

Had decided on London as kids are very into a few specific things/certain events are on right now. Had thought everything was settled.

You’re right I was very unlucky to have been in cities where two major attacks took place and to have grown up in an area where chaotic protests/violence was omnipresent. It has made me very risk averse.

We will see how things go and look at other options.

To be fair a lot of experienced Londoners so tend to have a spidey sense for trouble and know how to swerve situations. It isn't however a thing unique to Lononders, it is just a big city skill. If you grew up in NI you could probably apply the same skill in London.

I certainly have done so in other cities.

@Chaiandkaafee

Aware that this is a worrying time for Muslims and Arabic people specifically.

DC go to school with Muslim kids and we have Muslim (and Jewish) friends.

The issue is not avoidance of specific groups but of major protests and threat of violence which unfortunately would be more concentrated in London as it is the most populous city, the capital and centre for government.

It's a worrying time for Muslims AND Jews.

@Ginmonkeyagain
Yeah I know - in both the London and Paris attacks being Northern Irish was advantageous. Both times the NI people realised what was happening instantaneously, had organised alternative hotel accomodation/transport/plans and were preparing to leave the airport in a subdued “not this again” semi bored stance, by the time everyone else surrounding had got over the hyperventilation/crying/panic/ringing of relatives etc. Obviously very concerned too, but programmed to get the practicalities sorted first, emotions second.

If it were me and DH alone I think we’d be confident enough. But the kids makes me worry - no experience of anything like that and prone to panic/running/meltdowns/inappropriate interactions with strangers.

With your level of anxiety you will honestly be better off going somewhere else.

Quite.

@Wonkasworld

Extremely aware of this as we have Jewish friends. Horrific at the moment.
Was acknowledging the other posters comments regarding Muslims.

Might help to quote but I see that now.

Aw just seen your nice post @Ramalangadingdong thank you 🙏
I hope and sincerely pray for peace in this situation. We can hold people and governments accountable for terrible actions without punishing children and targeting Jews and Muslims everywhere.
Please don't let hate triumph. Again, OP if you are worried make decision that you feel happy with.

Good God, is this self-indulgent thread still going? Stay or stay away @StayorgoLDN but stop trying to whip everything up into a drama starring you. It's distasteful.

I don't think you are being over dramatic, OP. Maybe wait until after this weekend to decide, if that's possible. There are protests planned in London for today.

The reason Londoners maybe don’t realise they have an advantage and less reason for anxiety than a tourist when faced with a violent protest or similar is that as yet they haven’t had to use it

Probably because given the size of London you'd be very unlucky to be caught up in a violent protest. DM two miles away knew nothing about riots in Brixton until DB in Australia called her.

Got it, this isn't about 'feeling safe' at all. This is about you being so much better at spotting dangerous situations and how much more in tune you are to them than us mindless big city dwellers.

As for telling us we haven't had to get used to violent situations - words fail me.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain

As what point have contemporary Londoners had to deal with frequent bombing, violence and the like?

I’m not talking knife crime or mugging. I’m talking not safe enough to go to the shop for several days scenarios. Frequently.

If there is an incident of some description in any place in the world locals are better able to escape/get help than tourists.

When I was growing up there were multiple times when a tourist would go for a scenic tour in a republican or unionist area and then wondered why they had to be bundled out in a car boot or ended up beaten to a pulp. We had to shelter an English woman who was being stoned in our house at one point.

Locals, wherever that may be, will have local knowledge and resources which gives them advantage.

I don’t feel confident that I have the resources or local knowledge of London to be able to cope with autistic children in an emergency scenario.

@Bloomingmagnolia are you for real? This is the largest terrorise incident since 2001. Imagine if hundreds of people were murdered at the reading festival at the same time as hundreds were shot in their fucking beds in london and hundreds were killed at Windsor barracks. Then hundreds more were taken hostage.

would you like your government to maybe do something About that? To free your relatives and stop them butchering your children?

this is the biggest errors it’s attack in twenty years and all some people are focussing on is the request by Israel to clear the area where the hostages are so they can save their own people. I am compelrely
gobsmacked by the lack of basic understanding here.

and as a Jewish person let me tel you that if Hamas can do this and blindside the most rigorous security service on the planet, then. They can do it anywhere- so every single Jewish person across the planet is shitting it right now.

you wait and see.

I’m gobsmacked at your utter lack of humanity. What I wouldn’t want my government to do is the indiscriminate murder it innocent civilians by a state. Israel’s government is nothing short of barbaric plus all of things it has accused Hamas of.

Utter bullshit re Hamas blindsiding one of the most sophisticated intelligence agencies in the world. Israel appears to have willfully ignored warnings. Even the Daily Mail has reported today Hamas practiced in plain sight for over a year.

Yes Jewish people are shitting it. What about the genocide that is taking place in Gaza? Their lives are worthless, right?

“Request to clear the area?” Are you fucking for real? You make it sound like a highly civilized affair. All the major agencies have warned of a catastrophe for innocent civilians.

I wish no harm to any Jew nor for any person of any other faith. All life is precious.