To want to understand and get something to be done about the school toilet issue.

[Rasell]

Until a couple of days ago I was blissfully unaware of the fact that lots of children are unable to go to the toilet all day at school on a daily basis, because lots of schools countrywide lock their toilets during lesson time and then are either too understaffed to open them or there are just too many children trying to use them, there's not enough time to eat and queue up for the toilet so these children are forced to hold it in all day, every day.
This seems to be because of appalling antisocial behaviour, destroying the facilities, bullying and worse but I'm not clear as to whether that's always the reason why.
I very much sympathise with schools having to deal with this and am horrified by the utter lack of values, respect, care, integrity and common decency that some people are raising their children to have. I don't know how to solve that problem but it definitely can't be blamed on schools or government, in my opinion; if you have children, raise them to be decent human beings. That's your job.
Denying children the right to use the toilet is unacceptable, though.
No-one can expect older children to just swan off at any given moment for a wee when they're busy doing a task in a lesson; if I need the loo while I'm busy at work I wait until I finish it then I go. However, if I've got my period and am leaking, or suddenly get a tummy ache or something, then I go immediately. Why should that be different at school? Why should they sit there in a pool of blood or desperately trying to hold their poo? How can they focus or work to their best ability?
This feels like pensioners having to choose between heating their homes or eating, or children coming to school without having breakfast and not being able to concentrate. We can't allow our children to have to choose whether they eat or go to the toilet, or sit in a classroom unable to follow the teacher because they're worried they're going to wet themselves. Boys weeing in bushes and girls holding it in all day...this is madness!!
The thread I was following was a mix of people's experiences from either side of the argument and rants. I really want to understand what's going on because I think we need to do something about it. I'm no-one and don't even have any children going through this but I'm so shocked by it that I want to get some facts and start a petition, I don't know, do something! Please help with useful information and comments. Thank you!

No, no. I think set your own union up is the winner.

Yup. So that’s not the ‘gotcha’ you were hoping for.

Schools need more funding. And they need more options for discipline. And the ability to tell the troublemakers to sling their hooks.

But that lack of funding does not excuse them if they breach basic human rights and cause children to suffer.

😂

I've set my own union up, I'm still not allowed to strike about school funding, now what?

How is a school that doesn't have money for glue sticks or whiteboard pens going to afford a remodel on such a massive scale? Also you'd end up losing valuable classroom space. We are short on science labs as it is, I'd hate to lose one to become toilets!

Also, being realistic, if you were a teen with IBS or similar, or you'd just come onto your period, would you want to deal with it in a loo that's en suite to the class?

Like most things school related the kids not solution would be more money and more teachers. Sadly, under the current government neither are likely. We don't have blanket refusals on toilet use in lessons at my school. We tried it, burns few children had accidents which the school realised was unacceptable. We try to discourage it though and the end result is sadly that the toilets often get damaged and then are out of action altogether, creating more problems at break times when hundreds of children have fewer toilets to use in a very short space of time.

There is also the obvious safeguarding issue as we just can't monitor the toilets during lesson time.

There aren't enough toilets for the number of students we have, even though we have added more recently. The entire school needs repairs and improvements and there just isn't the money to do it.

Staff face the same problems. There are hardly any staff loos, we obviously can't use them during lessons or even during changeover (I have a three hour teaching block some days - I've considered putting a bucket in my store cupboard!).

The only thing the school could do in my opinion is extend break time. 15 minutes just is not long enough for a drink and a wee!

We also have a 50 minute lunch break. This is longer than a lot of schools but it's a struggle to get over 2000 kids through the canteen. The queues are huge. They struggle to have time to eat let alone use the toilet.

It's a crap situation for everyone.

Not allowed to strike is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard though.

The whole point of collective bargaining power is that if your working conditions are unacceptable you just withdraw your labour until something is done. Only striking when given permission to do so rather defeats the point of it.

It's hardly surprising students don't respect the teachers when the teachers don't respect themselves.

Also, not read the full thread yet, but there are issues beyond vaping and vandalism (which are obviously pretty severe in themselves).

We have a massive mental health epidemic among teenagers at the moment, and even teenagers who are seriously unwell are not getting any CAMHS support until they are in absolute crisis.

I am lucky to work in a school where behaviour isn't such a major issue (vaping is, but vandalism isn't, anyway), but we do have concerns around toilets due to mental health issues- so far this term, I know we have had students making themselves sick in toilets, self harming with razors in toilets, and, unfortunately one serious attempt at overdosing.

Obviously, some students will find a place other than a toilet if the toilets are locked, but really it is the most unsupervised place in a school, particularly during lesson times.

It is another reason why schools may seriously consider locking toilets during lesson time. Currently we have SLT and pastoral leads patrolling and checking, but we are lucky we don't need them so much for other issues.

Edit: this is also why solutions involving prefects etc aren't always appropriate- could you imagine a prefect finding a student self harming in the toilet and being expected to deal with that?

Maybe a member of staff can be made redundant every time toilets need to be fixed after being vandalised, as that is the only way schools would be able to fund the work. We could end up with all pupils in the sports hall being taught be one person, but at least the toilets will be unlocked

In terms of solutions, this has to go beyond teachers- we need parents to say, yes, they care about school funding, they care about their kids having a qualified teacher, they care about funding for CAMHS and child social care and so on...

Currently, the government seems to think standing up to striking teachers is a vote winner, and there were certainly lots of parents on mumsnet who gave that impression. And now we're being told we didn't strike agressively enough!

@Gall10 if you bothered to read properly what I wrote, you would know that I was writing from the perspective of someone who taught for many years and had to deal with the consequences of mistreatment of facilities.

I have never and would never, advocate preventing any child from using the toilet when they need to. Sometimes when they need to, they can’t, because they’ve been trashed. What I would do is try to prevent the toilets from being used by people who want to get out of a lesson, or have a chat, or just mess about. I have dealt with vomit and piss and other bodily fluids and I don’t need to work in a hospital or other medical facility.

@MargotBamborough do you understand how strikes work? Unions have to hold a ballot, that ballot can only relate to what that organisation can legally strike about. Otherwise it is an illegal strike. You can’t just strike over anything you fancy.

It's hardly surprising students don't respect the teachers when the teachers don't respect themselves.

We have a winner in most stupid post of the thread, after your other natch.

I'm not a teacher, but I am the poor cunt that has to organise clearing up the fucking shit kids do. Meanwhile their parents thrum their arse hairs and tell me about their rights. What about the rights of their fellow students? What about the the rights of support staff on shit money to clear up this shit, smile on and do it again tomorrow.

Schools, note NOT teachers, don't lock toilets for shits and giggles.

I just did a check. It's October 12th and I've spent 3k getting toilets unblocked.

Now imagine (you're going to have to squeeze your brain quite hard) by July that's a TA.

The issue is lack of adequate safe facilities at break and lunch. Beth few people should need them in between and they can get passes. Most women/girls don't need a toilet more frequently for sanpro reasons either but it's perfectly reasonable to have a system/code in place to cover that eventuality

I'm not a teacher, but I am the poor cunt that has to organise clearing up the fucking shit kids do.

Thank you for that, you don't get nearly enough recognition. Such a horrible job.

Thank you - both for what you do, and for your response to that stupid post. I started a reply to it three times before giving up in disgust.

Look, I'm not saying it isn't difficult.

I'm saying that nothing will change unless you all just stop working until the government finds some solutions.

Stop whingeing about not being "allowed to strike".

If your working conditions are this bad then you bring the entire education system to a halt until extra money is found for toilet monitors, CCTV, more pupil referral units and powers to expel children so that the ones who can't be trusted not to destroy toilets get removed from mainstream education. Whatever it is you need.

You're not going to get it if all you do is moan ineffectually.

And children are paying the price.

Way to go to keep teachers motivated

Keeping teachers motivated isn't my job.

If they hate it that much they should quit.

I'm saying that nothing will change unless you all just stop working until the government finds some solutions.

Great, will you pay my bills while I do so? Because you know you don't get paid while on strike, right?

Because you really care about the kids going to the toilet and are really keen for this mass strike to happen, I assume you will. Let me know when to expect the first bank transfer and then I'll get on with forming that union.

There are other jobs. Why don't you apply for some?

Because then I wouldn't be on strike, I'd have just quit my job?

Loads of teachers have quit their jobs and nothing has improved for the kids because of it, merely got worse. I thought you cared about the kids.

I would absolutely not put prefects on toilet duty. Some students are vile enough to staff.

So if all the teachers quit, which is pretty much what's happening, who's going to teach all your precious students then? Stop killing the Golden Goose

And no I'm not a teacher I never have been and I don't know any either but I wholly sympathise with them

I think there needs to be a washroom attendant job on each loo so that it’s manned at all times, checked after use, people are given loo roll and their name noted down with any anomalies being flagged. Everyone has probably had a time in their life when they’ve had to run to the loo, it doesn’t mean you have a health issue. People need access to the loo, to suggest otherwise is bonkers.

If enough of you just keep working in this system and don't actually put your money where your mouth is, it will carry on limping on and the government won't do anything about it.