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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ex husband to pick up and drop off kids twice a month

52 replies

Applepie73 · 07/10/2023 08:25

AIBU? My ex husband sees the children every other weekend, he charges me £40 a month petrol money (it only costs about half of that for the round trip). I have started a new job and have asked him to pick the children up on a Friday and drop them back on a Sunday only during term time. I have offered to do drop off and pick up during holidays.

Context, it's a long one:
My ex husband and I were together for about 10 years. We got married after 9 years and 8 months later I asked for a divorce. In those 10 years we never did anything together, we went on one holiday (that I booked) and we didn't have date nights or anything - yes seriously. We had a baby after 2 years when we were very young (22/23). We were both in the middle of our probation year of teaching when I gave birth and he ended up failing his probation (meaning he could NEVER teach unless in a private school -UK rules) but I passed my probation. He told me it was my fault he failed because he had to help me with our son and he had to help during some of the nights. I believed it was my fault and took on that guilt. I later found out that during the decade he failed 300,000 new teachers passed and just 130 individual people failed theirs. When you look at those figures you have to question the real reason he failed.

Toward the end it was just toxic on both ends. We didn't fight but there was just nothing there. In the last two years of our relationship I was on maternity so he became the breadwinner (yes I was the breadwinner the whole time and also taking our eldest son to nursery and picking him up every day). For the first year I still received some income but in the second year he was in complete control of our finances. I was never allowed to see any bank statements and if I ever asked how much money we had he would never give me a straight answer. (We never had a joint bank account) In the final year I found out he had borrowed £3k from his parents, taken out a £5k loan in my vulnerable mum's name (he does pay her monthly for this, there are still 2 years left) and stolen £2k of our wedding gift money. This was on top of a £7k loan we had taken out in my name a few years before. When I asked him where all this money went he told me I had spent it because I was always asking him for money. He would give me £400 a month which covered any bills that came out of my account and that was also all the food budget money for the whole month as I always did the weekly food shop. That was to cover a family of 4 and also included me buying new clothes or items for our two children.

During COVID I finally found sense and I told him I wanted a divorce, he didn't want to so I asked him to book us therapy. I said I'd work on it but he just needed to for once be proactive about something and prove to me it would be different this time. After 3 weeks of him not booking the therapy or even looking for it I realised nothing would ever change and it solidified by decision to divorce.

According to him it came out of the blue but I had mentioned many times how unhappy and alone I felt. I'd also (seriously) suggested separating twice before over the years. We have two children and especially during COVID he was still going to "work". Despite finishing "work" at 2:30 there were days he wouldn't get home until after 7pm after the children had gone to bed and the first thing he did as soon as he got home was go and use the bathroom for about 40min to an hour. Every, single, day. I was already raising them alone and they were the reason we were sticking together. We were just two people that had children together that lived together.

Anyway that was just over 3 years ago now. He moved back in with his parents. It's 14 miles away and depending on traffic about an hour's drive away. When we first separated he had the children every weekend. He would pick them up and bring them back as he took (there was no discussion) the car when we separated. After 6 months I got back on my feet and my family gifted my a second hand car, I would drop the children to his house on a Friday and he would bring them back. After a month my car broke so I started to take the children on the train and would drop them to him at his place of work on a Friday because I finished work early.

He was frequently 10-20 minutes late picking them up (he never told us, we just had to wait) on the Friday and we would often be waiting outside for him. This continued for 7 months until once I missed the train so I was 15 minutes late. I hadn't warned him and he was waiting in "his" car. When I arrived he was furious he'd had to wait and I hadn't told him. At that point he told me I had to pay for his petrol and started charging me £40 a month by taking it out of the child maintenance payments he had to pay me. He said it wasn't a change because I don't physically hand him any money. The petrol money was to cover him driving himself home from work on a Friday because the children were in the car and to bring them back on a Sunday. I worked it all out and at most the petrol was costing him about £20 a month max but whatever. He has been doing that since November 2021.

In November 2022 he asked me to have the children one weekend (just to point out there have been many times since the divorce that I've kept the children on a weekend) but on that particular weekend I already had plans so I couldn't. He then said that from 1st January 2023 he would only see them every other weekend but I had to tell the children. My eldest child is autistic so trying to explain to a 9 year old why suddenly he will only see dad every other weekend was tricky and it had a big impact. I told my son I wanted to spend more time with them and take them out on the weekends and he ended up blaming me and thinking I'd taken away the time from his dad. In the end his school and I arranged therapy for him to cope (yes it was that bad). I was still charged £40 a month petrol.

When he reduced his contact with the children the amount of child maintenance went up. He was paying half of the monthly repayment towards the £7k loan we had taken out in my name. The difference of the new amount of child matience was roughly the same as the loan repayment so he stopped paying the loan and continued to pay me the same amount as before. He now only underpays me child matience of about £10 a month which includes the £40 petrol money, if you factor in the loan he is underpaying me about £100 a month. He has never helped if there have been additional costs in a month like buying school uniform, he just pays what he legally has to pay and that is it. But yes he is almost paying what he legally has to pay and a lot of women don't get that I guess. You'll see in the messages below that he has tried to gaslight me about how much he should pay but he is underpaying me, he also won't tell me his real salary and has a second job on the side so he is significantly underpaying me but I just am so worn out with him I can't be bothered.

In Sep I stared a new job, and I work late now on a Friday. I told him in July that I wouldn't be able to bring the children to his work on a Friday anymore and asked if he could pick them up. He told me I would have to bring them after work on the train to his house but still give them dinner like I always have on a Friday. Meaning I would finish work at 5, pick them up from club, get home around 5:45 cook and give them dinner than the take them on a 1.5 hour underground train journey at about 7-8pm. Remember my eldest is autistic and HATES underground trains and people. I said no, he had to pick them up because he finishes work at 2:30. I said I could still arrange dinner for them but I wasn't taking them on the train to his house after work. He accused me of keeping his children away from him and threatened to take me to court.

After 3 years of him constantly being difficult and blowing up on everything I've just had enough. He sees the children 4 nights a month, I don't have a car. I have asked him to pick them up on a Friday and drop them back on a Sunday, twice a month and he still takes £40 petrol money. He asked me to pick the children up this Sunday but I haven't had a single weekend at all this month because my eldest didn't want to go last time. I have so much to catch up on this weekend so I said I couldn't pick them up on Sunday but I could pick them up and drop them off during holiday times. After 3 years on having to walk on egg shells around him I have had enough and just put my foot down. The conversation was messy as you can see in the images.

So after all that, in all honesty. AIBU in asking him to to the pick up and drop off twice a month when he is already charging me petrol money for it and I do 75% of the childcare.

Ex husband to pick up and drop off kids twice a month
Ex husband to pick up and drop off kids twice a month
Ex husband to pick up and drop off kids twice a month
Ex husband to pick up and drop off kids twice a month
Ex husband to pick up and drop off kids twice a month
OP posts:
Hercisback · 07/10/2023 08:28
  1. Go via CSA for the money.
  1. Go to court/mediation to work out the dropping off.

Play him at his own shitty games.

jamaisjedors · 07/10/2023 08:28

Sorry this is so long I couldn't read it all but if your ex wants to see the kids, he needs to come and get them and so cover the cost himself.

If you haven't been to court, maybe you need a court order, here in France the non resident parent does all pick up and drop offs and if they are not there within an hour of the appointed time, they forfeit their visit.

CharlotteBog · 07/10/2023 08:30

Do you have a court order?
If not then there's not much you can do. You telling him that MN readers think he's wrong isn't going to change him.
I'd stop trying to negotiate, keep the kids with you and live your life. If he wants to see his children he'll have to step up.

Wallywobbles · 07/10/2023 08:35

Drop the rope.

He doesn't come he doesn't see them.

Payments through CSA.

Get a proper court document so ALL the details are on paper.

Redlarge · 07/10/2023 08:37

Why the hell are you dropping and collecting them and giving him petrol money.
Hes a grown man who stole the family car. Stop enabling his control and.abuse.

muchalover · 07/10/2023 08:38

I second (third?) getting everything on a legal footing.

It takes everything off of you for the long term.

Knobs gotta knob!

crackofdoom · 07/10/2023 08:40

jamaisjedors wow, is the picking up and dropping off by the NRP enshrined in law in France? Just imagining how many petty, pointless, stupid arguments that would solve if it was brought in here.

OP you are only being U here in that you are trying to argue and reason with this appalling specimen of a human being. Do not do this- you're just feeding the narc. I know how tempting it is, how you're morally completely justified, but I have one very similar and the ONLY thing to do is grey rock. No emotion, no accusations, and as little communication as is humanly possible.

Do you receive maintenance via the CMS? If not, I would do that ASAP, because then they will be a bulwark between you and him. But saying that, I still have an informal maintenance arrangement with my narc- they're experts at underpaying by just the right amount so that it's more bother than it's worth to involve the CMS. But formalising things would sort this nonsense about petrol money.

ASCCM · 07/10/2023 08:41

I absolutely hate parents who think of themselves and not the kids. My husbands ex is A selfish cow like this who won’t do ANY pick ups or drop offs and it’s just completely unreasonable.

parents should take turns, it’s really not that hard, as a parent you should be facilitating contact for them whilst they are young. He sounds like a complete dickhead tbh but it’s the kids that matter.

CherryMaDeara · 07/10/2023 08:42

He’s a cunt. Go via CMS for maintenance, don’t let him have this power.

ThreePointOneFourOneFiveNine · 07/10/2023 08:42

I think you need to get the courts involved.

leopardprintismyfavourite · 07/10/2023 08:44

I would stop taking them, and then let him take you to court.

That will probably take six months to a year, you’re the primary carer anyway, what’s he going to do about it? Any solicitor he employs is going to tell him he needs to demonstrate to the court that he’s ‘being reasonable and acting in the best interests of the children’ I think you’ve probably got enough evidence there to counter that.

Motomum23 · 07/10/2023 08:45

You need to make this more simple and take some control. The loan is in your name. He's not going to pay it, ever. He has financially abused you for years. So forget about the loan, factor it into your outgoings. Then get CMA to figure out and enforce maintenance... he can't take fuel out of it. Maintenance and child access are separate affairs.

Finally get your access arrangements sorted through the court. He needs to collect and drop off and if he doesn't agree to that they don't go.

crackofdoom · 07/10/2023 08:45

ASSCM (gently) Is your husband the NRP though? In which case it's reasonable for him to do all the pick ups and drop offs 🤔

nibblessquibbles · 07/10/2023 08:46

It's pretty simple, do you have a financial order in place covering the split of assets (and debts)? If not get one. Get CMS on the maintenance and if he wants to see his kids then he comes to get them. Not your problem how he gets there.

CherryMaDeara · 07/10/2023 08:46

Yes, stop taking them.

lizkt · 07/10/2023 08:48

Taking it to court could cost a fortune.

Just stop doing it and he has to come and get them and pay petrol. This is entirely normal practice.

leopardprintismyfavourite · 07/10/2023 08:48

You need to make this more simple and take some control. The loan is in your name. He's not going to pay it, ever.

This is absolutely true too.

Clemally · 07/10/2023 08:48
  1. you sound lovely and reasonable
  2. take him to court, let him try and bully them into submission instead.
CherryMaDeara · 07/10/2023 08:50

I wouldn’t even take him to court. Just stop taking the kids. He’ll realise you mean business. I doubt he’ll go to court.

I would also call the police about the fraud he did to you and your mum, unless you think that means the payments will stop.

Mrsm010918 · 07/10/2023 08:51

You need to get a consent order sorted if you haven't already. Then you can sort out any payments that he owes you in respect to joint liabilities separate to child maintenance.

You do not have to pay him any petrol money for him transporting his children, 14 miles is nothing.

Applepie73 · 07/10/2023 08:54

Edit:

No nothing has been arranged through courts, I wanted to do mediation but he refused. I worked out child maintenance from our Government website calculator on the fake salary he told me.

He always belittles me and says that I wouldn't win if we went to court. When we got divorced I didn't ask to spousal payments because again he got in my head and said I wouldn't get anything and I just wanted a quick divorce because he kept harassing me.

This is why this time I have just been so blunt with him, I have had enough of the gaslighting and I'm not as weak as I was before. He twists everything you say and uses it as a weapon and it really messes up your head.

OP posts:
44PumpLane · 07/10/2023 08:55

I agree with others that you should go through CMS, he won't then get to decide to make random deductions.

He's being deliberately obtuse about the whole "you don't pay for petrol because money only goes one way", complete and utter arsehole.

Go via CMS and he can no longer make deductions.

14 miles with a car is nothing, and he is clearly doing this to punish you- don't let him .....he does the travel to pick up/drop off in term time, it's not arduous. And if that is too much effort for him then unfortunately he doesn't get to see his kids.

You parent them 12 nights out of 14, it's reasonable that in the small amount of time you don't have them, that you don't have to spend hours of it schlepping about on public transport to save him a tiny amount of driving time.

GabriellaMontez · 07/10/2023 08:56

Go via cms.

Let him go to court if he wants.

He's a twat. The less the kids see this man the better imo.

Applepie73 · 07/10/2023 08:57

Only the loan in my mum's name was fraud, I didn't want to do anything that would hurt the kids. He does pay her the monthly repayment but if he stops it is something I might have to consider.

The other loan in my name and was a joint decision, his credit was so bad he couldn't get one and we couldn't get a joint one because of his credit. Well that is what he told me at the time but who knows if it was actually true, I didn't check, I just believed him.

OP posts:
lizkt · 07/10/2023 09:01

Going to CMS costs £20 as a one off. Would highly recommend, they see his tax submissions. Then you never have to discuss the amounts with him again.

Going to court is a whole other ball game which you might not need to do.