When kids and partners clash

[honeybun24]

I have a ds12 from previous relationship and have been with current dh for 7 years (so since ds was about 5). We also have a toddler together.

Dh is helpful with ds (happy to do lifts, cook meals, pay for family holidays, all the usual stuff) but also maintains a respectable distance when needed as ds dad very much involved.

The thing is as ds has gotten older him and dh seem to argue more. It often starts with dh winding him up in a good natured way but sometimes taking it too far which then leads to ds telling him to shut up or being otherwise rude. This rudeness and attitude has escalated since ds started secondary school and we've even had some swearing from him.

I know ds behaviour is unacceptable but I also get frustrated with dh because he does wind him up and seemingly doesn't know when to stop, then when ds loses his rag he's very quick to come down hard on him and demand respect. I am frequently caught in the middle of them and acting as mediator which is draining.

I can only see this getting worse as ds gets older and hits the teenage years. It's very sad as they do love each other but they just clash. We had a big row last night and when ds was in bed I laid it on the line with dh and said if they can't get along and it gets too much we will end up having to live separately. Bit dramatic perhaps.

I have spoken to ds about his attitude and language, his reply "he just gets me so angry". Overall he is a sensible, trustworthy, kind and respectful lad who I've never really had to discipline because he's never been a problem. How do I navigate this? I just want them to get on.

Your example is at best immature, and at worst nasty. Why would any adult rile a child? Be he the bio father or not I would be having a serious think about his behaviour as the next few years are about to become a rollercoaster.

I have a teen son and my partner would never intervene in this way. His behaviour provides an excellent male role model - ask you partner is that what he would want to be seen as?

Your DH is getting more of a pasting on here because he's a step parent, I think. It always happens on mumsnet.

If he's generally a good guy, you have shared DC, and he's been in your DS' life for many years, I think it would be madness to break the family up at this stage.

It sounds more like DH is getting it a bit wrong and not adapting his behaviour to parenting a teen. There's a good book we read called 'Get out of my life (but first take me and Alex into town)'. Also - TALK to him about it.

I'm really not sure where everyone is getting this 'bullying' thing from - men/boys often rib each other, it doesn't sound like anything really nasty tbh.

DS' behaviour needs nipping in the bud if he is swearing. DH needs to learn to be more sensitive to him now he is getting older and more hormonal.

My thoughts exactly. I am certain that the bullying comments wouldn't be happening if he wasn't a step parent. This is the man who has paid for family holidays, christmases, stood in the cold and watched ds play football, given him lifts, entertained his friends. He is far from a bully but I agree he is getting it wrong at the moment.

Parenting a tween/teen is a minefield. I get it wrong sometimes too. I've never done it before. But I have no intention of breaking up our family over this, I just hoped for some useful guidance or advice from people who have maybe been through something similar.

MN and AIBU specifically is wild at the moment. So much nastiness.

I would have said it's bullying whether he was a step parent, biological parent, or the bloody gardener tbh.

It's not about men/boys "ribbing" each other. Your son is a child. He's dealing with the start of the hormone-heavy teenage years and he has no idea how to take comments like this on the chin, brush them off etc. How is he ever going to learn how to do that if he's not shown? As soon as he says something back to your husband, your husband "comes down hard" on him. Hardly modelling the best way to receive "banter" is he?

I never said to break up your family, but I said your instinct to be harsh with your husband and give him an ultimatum was a good one, because if it were me, I'd be demanding this stop in no uncertain terms.

It's only fun if everyone's laughing. It is upsetting your son.

I can't actually see what your DS is doing wrong.

Grown man deliberately pushes his buttons, DS responds appropriately. Your husband keeps doing it, so your sons response gets bigger.

Is this man to stupid to understand cause and effect?

You don't want your DS just staying quiet when these things happen, what would that teach him about his value?

Your DH needs to be the adult here. There is no need to try and get the last word or do banter anymore.

he stops any banter or is more careful when he does (it is banter or unnecessarily mean - your example was the latter). If he does something that hits wrong he walks away and defuses the situation. There is no need to stay and stand his ground.

if you pick a scab/spot accidentally you don’t keep picking at it you leave it. He doesn’t need to win or get the last word. He can and needs to stop. It is clear from your post that your DH is perfectly capable of modifying his behaviour and stop causing it so he needs to.

actually parent or step parent it doesn’t matter if he doesn’t know when to stop when it is clearly having a negative affect that is verging on bullying. Instead he either needs to not escalate or walk away and give space

Just remember that your son will remember when he's a grown adult, if you failed to make sure his home was a safe place for him. Not all abuse is physical. Constant put downs and 'teasing' is emotional abuse.

You, as an adult, have the power to leave or make your husband leave. Your son is stuck until he's old enough to leave

Of course but the issue is that dh doesn't intend to cause upset. In his mind he thinks he's having a joke and quite often ds does laugh along and they get on fine. On the odd occasion he misjudges it or catches ds is in a bad mood so he turns around and swears at dh or tells him to shut up dh is understandably a bit 'huh?'

Those suggesting this is deliberate, targeted abuse are so far off the mark its unreal but there is no point trying to argue because they clearly know more about my life and family than I do.

I would say that ds is free to be himself in our home and his shitty attitude and behaviour actually demonstrates that. At school or even at his dads (who is very strict) he doesn't behave like this. So although I don't relish the disagreements and fallouts I do believe that ds is comfortable to be his true self with dh and I, warts and all.

Aside from these arguments they have a solid relationship, often go out together just the two of them to play football or watch a lads film at the cinema. This isn't abuse, it's a clash of old man personality versus teen boy personality.

The thing is you don’t have to break up your family.

if it broke up it would be dh who broke it up. I am a step parent so all this ‘mn hates step parents and therefore shouldn’t ever be listened to’ is weird.

Your adult husband keeps repeating behaviours he knows upsets your son and drives your son to lash out. That’s not ok. It’s really that simple.

If you family, including your son, is as important to your husband as it is to you he will stop it.

The whole ‘men always have banter so it’s not bully’ is cliched toxic male behaviour. Many men don’t like banter. And this isn’t behaviour between 2 men or equal development, power etc.

It’s one fully grown man, winding a child up then getting angry because the child reacted.

You don’t have to break up the family. You can simply tell your husband it’s not acceptable, that’s it’s bullying and it’s provoking a response. Since he is provoking the response he has no right to get angry or feel disrespected when he gets that response.

If he doesn’t change, then I would leave. Because there’s 2 outcomes. He also does it to the children you share, meaning teenage years with all of them will be more difficult and upsetting than it needs to be. Or he doesn’t do it to his own children, singling your ds out even more.

Winding a child up is completely unacceptable behavior. Saying something nasty and then pretending it was just good fun is how mean people get away with being mean.

Your "d"h needs to stop, immediately, and you need to take your son's side. He should not have to put up with such immature, bullying behavior.

Honestly id try not to get too stressed over it. Teens argue with parents. I did with my stepdad and he did nothing wrong. My 14 yr old son bickers with his dad and also my new partner. They all think banter is great till it goes too far. All 3 of them!!! I ignore or tell the pair that is arguing to wrap it and grow up.

Tell stepdad feel free to keep going with the banter but be ready for the fall out.. basically dont give it if you cant take it!! If he cant handle a 12 yr old being rude or disrespectful he'll hate the teen years lol.

Can your DH agree that for now, there is no ‘humour’ in his relationship with DS?

it’s almost as if they need to go back to the start. Starting secondary school is a big change for your DS, and like lots of teenagers the sudden self awareness and redefining of themselves as individuals can lead to questioning other relationships. It sounds like that’s what is happening here, but whereas you’re his mum, your DH as step father has a slightly different dynamic with him.

Going for ‘functional and friendly’ could work. The two of them need to reduce the opportunities for misunderstanding and to do that all joking needs to stop.

over time I’m sure things will change again, but I would recommend your DH sees DS almost like a new person he’s getting to know, and that the respect and trust will follow.

I mean, all of this discussion is irrelevant - your DH is doing something unnecessary that upsets your DS and causes him to react badly, so your DH needs to stop. It's literally that straightforward. It doesn't matter what your DH's intent is - he's doing something that upsets your DS and your DS wants him to stop and is being reasonable in asking so. So just tell your DH to stop. If he's a good guy, then he will be horrified to realise he's upsetting your son and change his behaviour. Sure, he might slip up again, but again, if he's a good guy he will realise and apologise, or someone will point it out and he'll apologise. I'm a bit confused as to why you spoke to your DS about his behaviour, this is on your DH. I would have thought it would be obvious that if someone gets upset and lashes out when you tease them, you stop?

And maybe this is how you frame it with your DH
'I don't know if you've connected the dots, but DS really hates it when you tease him, and that's what's causing him to lash out - I know you would never intend to upset him so I just wanted to point it out to you so you can stop it before it damages your relationship with him' - again, any decent guy will be horrified and apologise to DS, so if he's a decent guy then this just needs a simple, direct conversation to point it out.

This is very sensible advice

It sounds like it’s entirely your husbands fault. Your son is a hormonal child. Your husband is supposed to be an adult.

I would leave the marriage if my husband was being that horrible and disrespectful to my child without taking any responsibility for the problems his childish behaviour is causing. Your son only has you to stick up for him.

It's simple. Over the next 6 years you will have an adult male and a young male in your house. They are going to vie increasingly for 'top dog' rating.

Your dp has to learn to bite his tongue or he leaves.

All parenting of ds falls to you, and you need to keep challenging your ds' rudeness.

As the testosterone levels rise, so will the clashing. It won't get easier so TELL your dp to stfu or go and find somewhere else to live. Teenagers are not easy -but they have an excuse, they are teens. Your dp is supposed to be an adult. It is on him to support you by changing.

You say he's being horrible...have you actually read all of the comments I put about the things he does for ds. Financial, emotional support. Holidays. Days out. Does this make up for some of his behaviour? No. But he's not horrible.

I do stick up for ds. Ds knows I always have his back. However I can't let swearing and unnecessary rudeness go either.

Totally agree that it'll be a rough few years with all the testosterone around. I sincerely hope we can make it through.

No. Financial and emotional support does make up for trying to purposely provoke someone.

If a woman posted that her husband kept doing something he knows she hates to provoke her to react and then berated her for reacting…..would your response be ‘well the nice stuff he does must make up for the crappy stuff he does’.

Your dh is doing it knowing it will provoke a response. He knows the response he is provoking. That response then means you and ds have friction because you have to deal with the swearing.

It’s odd that you want ds’ behaviour to improve but as so defensive of Dhs behaviour and justifying it. Your dh could change his behaviour instantly. Your son is still learning emotional regulation. Which is only being made harder by your husbands behaviour.

The power dynamic between your son and husband is immense.

If your husband is as good as man as you say, he will stop provoking your son and then you can deal with swearing and so forth. But it’s hard to deal with swearing when it’s coming from a child who is being provoked by an adult.

Have you thought that the reason he doesn't behave like this at school or his dads is because there isn't a nasty twat goading him?

OP. If this wasn't about your son but about you, if your DH was often saying things to you that upset you really badly, what would you do?

Hopefully, you'd be able to have a word with your DH and tell him how it made you feel and he would stop it. And all would be good again.

But if he didn't stop it, if he continued to 'joke' with you, perhaps even making out that you're too sensitive and can't take a joke...what then?

Would the holidays, and presents and everything like that make up for the way he treats you sometimes? Perhaps for a while they would, but permanently? Or would you end up walking on eggshells never knowing when the next barb might come? Whether he was going to be lovely DH or mean DH on any given day.

I know what the responses on here would be to anyone who was asking for advice about a DH like that.

It's up to your DH to change his behaviour.

Your DH needs to back off and stop the banger. Teenagers are middy and quick to anger and it might be that your DS needs the space for that not happening. My H does this with DS sometimes and so it's not a step parent thing but now he knows it's an issue he needs to not do it again. If your DS raises the lack of banter then you can have a conversation about it.

I think a lot of these responses are a bit extreme.

Teens often become defensive and stroppy over inane comments - it's normal. They also hate being wrong and will argue themselves into a corner instead of admitting it

I would say your DH probably does need to think a bit more before he speaks, but also he shouldn't be taking all the comments to "shut up" quite so personally. If that's the worst thing your 12yo is saying to you, you're doing quite well.

Personally, I think your 12yo sounds like a typical 12yo and your DH sounds like a fairly typical man who is just behaving as "normal" but getting a different response because the 12yo is starting to assert himself a bit.

Thank you for the helpful comments. It's given me a lot to think about.

However since the thread has just descended into idiocy and unpleasantness I'm going to hide it now. Ds isn't abusive or a 'nasty twat' (how lovely the poster who put this sounds). He is making clumsy attempts at interaction with a growing boy and failing. Sometimes I get it wrong too, I guess none of you have ever had a cross word with your teens and are just perfect parents.

I have spoken to dh and he's taken on board what I said. But changing the dynamic between them might take some effort as the whole jokey, banter thing is what they've always done. It's only become a problem in the last year or so, clearly it's to do with ds age and emotions.

It's probably my fault for posting this in aibu but I really thought I might get some constructive advice on family dynamics rather than the insults, insinuations my son hasn't got a 'safe space' and boringly predictable use of the word 'abuse' being thrown around willy nilly (an insult to those who genuinely do have abusive family members).

Thanks again for the useful comments.

Don't take it to heart @honeybun24 - lots of people here will do anything to make a man out to be a dickhead.