Arrest a shoplifter says Tory MP. Would you? I wouldn't.

[newnamethanks]

This is the latest economy they wish to foist upon us. Please detain anyone you spot helping themselves to goods which belong to a shop. Don't think about your own personal safety, just be public spirited enough to interrupt that junkie over there helping himself. As if.

it really does make you question his intelligence. No wonder the country is in such a state.

My DH did apprehend someone in ALDI, a couple, the female was putting a few low value items in a basket and the male was stuffing steaks and meat in a bag, he reported this to staff who did nowt. He followed the guy out and demanded it back. The guy gave it back willingly and just disappeared.

I used to cover the occasional shift in a shop on Kensinton High Street. The number of polished, well dressed, young people who felt entitled to a personal discount by stuffing some bits and pieces into their bag or pocket whilst browsing was surprising. If I noticed, when they came to actually pay for an item, I'd ask if they would like to pay for their additional trinkets or I could put them back into stock. Most of them blushed and paid up. There was no personal risk to me at all and in those days people still felt shame at dishonesty and it was from greed not need. I wouldn't do that today.

@OMGitsnotgood, Chris Philp, MP. Minister for Policing 😤

I have detained shoplifters before, as a security guard, retail manager and as a normal MOP, but it's too risky now. My friend is the store manager of my local Aldi and even he tells his security staff (contracted guards) not to risk their safety trying to detain shoplifters, especially as they are usually on NMW or just above.

I would very likely intervene if a member of staff was trying to detain someone and I thought that there was a risk that they were going to be injured, or actually being injured, but I am confident in my abilities and knowledge of use of force, but for bog standard shoplifting I would not get involved.

I hate that it has come to this, but the Police are not in a position to respond to these types of crimes and carrying weapons has just become the norm. I am not putting the safety of myself or my family in jeopardy, and it genuinely pains me to say that.

There are 8000 fewer police officers than there were in 2010. At one point (2018) there were 22,000 fewer police officers than there were in 2010.

Much of the country is basically un-policed - when was the last time you actually saw any police presence anywhere? A police car? An officer walking the beat? Unless you live in a large city you probably can't remember when you last saw these things. We used to have 4 police stations in our borough - now there are none. That's 120,000 people, and 112 square miles with no permanent police presence. For crimes such as burglaries from outbuildings (absolutely rife in a rural areas) the police's sole role is to give you a crime number for insurance purposes.

Traditional Conservatives supported and funded public services, particularly the police and armed services. But the new brand of libertarian Conservatives seem to lump all public services, from police, to the army, to libraries, to social services together, as something that is bad and should be cut to the bone.

Precisely. Clearly not clued up on knife crime statistics

'Police your fellow citizen'?

People seemed more than happy to do that during the pandemic! 😏

Nah. I didn't see anything.

I see a bunch of corrupt politicians though, more than happy to start arresting them.

It was Chris Philp, who was always extremely amusing to watch interviewed during the Liz Truss fiasco. (Amusing in retrospect I guess, at the time it would make you pull your hair out). This comment is exactly what I'd expect from him. I'm surprised he didn't suggest people investigate their own murders.

Thanks @BCCoach and others. I guess having grown up rurally and living rurally now (but working in a city) my own personal experience is seeing the same/possibly more police about in general - but that's probably more reflective of a change in where I spend my time!

It's very interesting what you say about "new breed" conservatives lumping everything together, did it used to have more clear separate budgets?

I find it weird (believable, just weird!) that of all parties the Conservatives would be the ones driving underfunding. My perception is that a lot of older voters tend towards Conservative, and I'd think they'd be very pro a large police force! But as I'm showing, I'm fairly ignorant in politics (which is not a good thing!).

Things didn't go so well in that shop in Peckham when the shop owner tried to detain the shoplifter. It was a total disaster, with both of them being investigated by the police and a fair amount of violence involved.

When they're already paying taxes and business rates, why should they? Shops are already struggling, and have been closing down for decades due to being unable to turn a profit, even big chains (Woolworths, Wilkos etc)., so how can they also afford a small army of security staff, especially when the police can't be arsed to turn up most of the time to arrest the thieves, and even if they do, the CPS can't be arsed to prosecute!

And retail security are usually on NMW or very slightly higher, even the shop staff are being paid more. Why would they put themselves in harms way for that, I wouldn't!

@BCCoach

There are 8000 fewer police officers than there were in 2010.

Nice bit of selective reporting there, cherry picking the peak in 2010 to compare against! We now have 9k more than 2003!

Yes! This would end well. Jayzus wept, we pay taxes for a police force. I remember when a local jewellery precinct was robbed by guys armed with baseball bats smashing and grabbing and people took videos to pass to the police and some muppet said ‘so you all saw this and stood videoing it without intervening?’ Yes because they had weapons and there were several, I’m not getting my head caved in for goods that are insured.

Pre-Tories we used to have Police for this.

The Tories have pushed and pushed a selfish, individualistic attitude and trampled all over the bonds of society. They've championed greed and corruption and a mindset of everyone being out for themselves. They've created poverty and desperation and left enormous gaps for gangs and organised crime to thrive. They've destroyed public services and broken the social contract.

So where on earth do they think anyone is going to muster up the community spirit from to tackle (drunk/drugged/armed?) shoplifters in the absence of police?

Police weren't interested in shoplifting during Blair's years either. We had a convenience store and didn't matter whether we detained shoplifters or not, the police barely bothered coming out, sometimes they'd come the next day (as if we'd keep them overnight!). Even if they came when the shoplifter was still there, they never prosecuted - sometimes they arrested, sometimes they didn't. Apparently "low level" shoplifting wasn't worth their time and effort!

I saw a video on social media where a group of men (Uk) chased a couple of shop shop lifters to a supermarket car park and helped the security guard empty the car boot of the stolen items. it's a matter of time before the have a go heroes end up in jail for hurting a shoplifter or someone gets seriously hurt. Urging the public to arrest shoplifters is asking for trouble and not necessarily for the criminal.

I also so a U.S. video of a Walmart security guard handcuffing a shoplifter. I can't imagine UK security guards ever getting this power to detain shoplifters until police turn up (if ever)

Er, no. If shops need protection they can pay security.

Would like to arrest the previous PMs, though.

No but I would loudly tell a member of staff.

👏👏👏👏👏

Do they get a tax refund then?

I'd be worried about teens and young people trying to do the right thing. As much as I agree that any criminal, even for petty crime, should be arrested and charged, me being beaten up wouldn't help anyone.

The idea of teens or young people stabbed because they tried to stop someone is frightening. Most shoplifters are not "poor desperate parents doing something for their child", most shoplifters are part just criminal, gangs or individuals, who sell that baby milk and anything they put their hands on to make a quick and easy buck.