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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Beyond fucking angry about our primary school

158 replies

Whattheactualhell123 · 03/10/2023 13:50

This article has just
appeared in our local paper about my kids primary school - I'm so upset for the kids and the remaining staff sticking it out.

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/former-teachers-slam-toxic-culture-27669063

Rumours have been circulating and heated debates launched on the school whattsapp from time to time about the new head.

In all honesty what power do we really have to make any changes for a better learning environment for our children and the teachers?

. Is it ever really possible for a head to be removed from their post because they have behaved so badly towards their staff?

What would you personally do if this was your kids school?

If you are a teacher or support staff (apparently the PA had an awful time too!) who has left this school due to this person I am so sorry that you have been so utterly failed in your profession. ❤️

Former teachers slam 'toxic culture' at Cambs primary school after many leave

Former teachers at Bassingbourn Community Primary School said there was a culture of 'bullying and fear' at the school

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/former-teachers-slam-toxic-culture-27669063

OP posts:
BlueMongoose · 04/10/2023 20:47

Dabralor · 03/10/2023 14:23

I used to work at a school where this exact thing happened. Literally all the teachers left at the end of the year, bar one.

It was chronic, I almost left teaching completely because of it. I'm sorry you're in this position OP - I think it's more common than you'd think.

Hopefully it will reach a critical point very soon and things can begin to change - I know it did at my old school. The head literally ran away one day, never to be seen again!

My MIL worked at a very good rural school many years ago, and the same thing happened- a very poor head was put in to replace an excellent one* who had retired after many years there. My MIL left.

  • (the old head had been very responsive to parents, supportive to staff and pupils, had taught the parents of many of the kids, knw the families and their circumstances, saw to it that what the kids were taught was relevant and that they were all stretched to their full potential, etc.- the replacement was the 'no teacher has desks in the classroom here, I have had them all removed' sort of pest.)
Oldandnonethewiserlol · 04/10/2023 21:11

So sorry to hear this.
This happened to a friend of mine and a couple of her colleagues in a primary school. She is a brilliant teacher and she had to take time off school for stress, she did not want to go back. Her headteacher was a horrible man, a bully, who made her life hell. She was advised to contact her teachers’ union and her professional body as well as the council with her grievances. A lot of parents also wrote to the council on her behalf as she had taught many of their kids and they really liked her and knew how good a teacher she was. A vote of no confidence got rid of the bullying head who was really jealous of my friend’s success instead of being proud of his staff. My friend returned to school and is happy there now. Many heads are not taught to manage human resources. I hope everything gets resolved for your children’s school. Good luck!

Cornishgorl44 · 04/10/2023 21:24

That happened at a school I worked at. All staff left apart from one TA. When I started I was Teacher number 11 in the class that year - crazy. It’s all too common sadly

Standupforwhatubelieve · 04/10/2023 21:29

The governors do not care about the complaints they make them disappear pretty quick

Standupforwhatubelieve · 04/10/2023 21:35

I believe a group of parents have gone as high as they can but because the head is very clicky with the school governors she gets away with everything and all complaints are brushed under the carpet. No matter what u have concerns about they don’t want to know.

Platypuslover · 04/10/2023 21:38

There’s a school in Solihull toi like this. Unqualified, inexperienced, incompetent head. Beats me who gave her the job. The old head got an mbe for services in teaching before she retired. Instead of giving the job to deputy that was a teacher and knew how to run the school and was really good at it. The job went to someone who is rumoured to have stolen money from a free school she previously worked at and helped start up.

She is abusive to staff puts kids at risk by saying things like all the kids being taken out on could be on the safe guarding list or not have the forms signed before they let the parents freely film everything. And the comms are shocking. Like telling things to 6 year olds expecting them to pass on the message instead of a newsletter to parents.

she was off for some 18 months until literally the last day of school before the summer and things improved until then. No one knows where she went for all that time (for all I know she could have been in prison?!) and again in the new school year no comms suddenly the kids (7-8), are told not the parents again, to wear their pe kit all day for 2 days of the week instead of changing in separate class rooms like they did up to year 6 until the summer. When I tried to call to confirm it the lines were still closed 10 mins before school starts. Finally get through later in the day to be told it was in the newsletter. Well I checked them all and there was nothing of the sort! Nothing at all!

she needs to go she keeps taking back handers for pointless school branded stuff and wasted the budget on this. I mean let the kids bring their own bottles that are not damaging their teeth (unlike the one she wants parents to buy) and pencil cases and ratty dirty organiser things that hang on the back of the chairs causing obstructions.

she is also rude and refuses to see any parents regardless how often we request an appointment with her.

CatsAreBestest · 04/10/2023 22:09

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

T1Dmama · 04/10/2023 22:34

Maybe staff and students need to protest with their feet and not go in? Or complain to the local authority.

Owl55 · 05/10/2023 00:31

I worked in a school which had a wonderful reputation locally with many popular teachers who worked there , Ofsted came in and slammed the results and a new head was appointed, some of the staff just would not accept new ways of teaching and new responsibilities and they left bitter and angry , the head teacher brought in many new ideas and the new younger staff and school flourished and it has now been outstanding for over 10 years under the new leadership with happy children who are reaching their potential . This too was a school in a good area with ambitious parents who supported the school. School politics are prob behind this , give the head teacher a chance maybe!

ilovechocolate07 · 05/10/2023 07:08

I've worked in a school like this in an ofsted good school 10 years ago and it was pure hell. The head had an agenda to push out all staff and introduce new teachers. Only a couple of old teachers stayed and bullying complaints were made but she's still there so that answers the question. The board of governors weren't interested in our accounts and I should have fought it further but I was living in survival mode and close to breakdown so I couldn't stick it out and gather evidence as suggested by the union. Two experienced part time teachers were observed and criticised constantly and when left were replaced with one full time newly qualified teacher who incidently left straight after the year was out. The people who did fight it got nowhere. If I remember rightly, 6 teachers left in one year and a further 3 in the following 2 years and it was a one form entry R-6!

FrippEnos · 05/10/2023 10:21

Owl55 · 05/10/2023 00:31

I worked in a school which had a wonderful reputation locally with many popular teachers who worked there , Ofsted came in and slammed the results and a new head was appointed, some of the staff just would not accept new ways of teaching and new responsibilities and they left bitter and angry , the head teacher brought in many new ideas and the new younger staff and school flourished and it has now been outstanding for over 10 years under the new leadership with happy children who are reaching their potential . This too was a school in a good area with ambitious parents who supported the school. School politics are prob behind this , give the head teacher a chance maybe!

I have never known teachers not to "accept new ways of teaching", I have known teachers ask why somethings are being done, and also pointing out that changing too much to soon or in one go does not have the desired effect.
Then these teachers are pushed out.

As for ofsted they have an ever changing narrative of what they want and what they are going to do, yet it seems strange that people trust an organisation that has failed its own review.

Boundoverbyacat · 05/10/2023 13:31

@ilovechocolate07 how is the school doing now?

ellyeth · 05/10/2023 22:33

As another poster said, there is only one side of the story here. What is needed is a proper investigation.

Whattheactualhellpart2 · 05/10/2023 22:43

ellyeth · 05/10/2023 22:33

As another poster said, there is only one side of the story here. What is needed is a proper investigation.

Agree 100%

Moglet4 · 05/10/2023 23:10

TheDogIsInCharge · 04/10/2023 20:26

Yes the head who was such an unmitigated disaster for my children's primary school was like this - inexperienced and fast tracked. The chair and deputy chair of governors decided on her and not the vastly more experienced and much loved deputy head who had been at the school for years. He left of course. And then, when it all went spectacularly tits up after just one year, the chair and deputy chair resigned, with the deputy chair removing her kids from the school and sending them to the local private one.

I became a governor to attempt to moderate some of her batshit ideas and I can remember very vividly in one meeting saying to her "so it is SATS results at the expense of everything else?" and she said yes.

Show quote history

Unfortunately, it’s absolutely endemic in schools now and judging by some of the comments on this thread, a lot of the general public are absolutely clueless. Very sad.

Teateaandmoretea · 06/10/2023 08:06

Moglet4 · 05/10/2023 23:10

Unfortunately, it’s absolutely endemic in schools now and judging by some of the comments on this thread, a lot of the general public are absolutely clueless. Very sad.

Show quote history

Typical mumsnetter immediately jumps to everyone is ‘clueless’.

The simple problem is that there are not enough competent people available to be head teachers and this has been the case for many years. The smaller the school the lower the salary do the harder it is to recruit.

That funding has been reduced along with other shite driving teachers out this will get worse.

The OP is describing a very common situation and seems to have real naivety about the situation. The school appointed the best person for the job, who unfortunately isn’t up to it. To be raging, we’ll sadly that’s the state education is in.

Teateaandmoretea · 06/10/2023 08:15

The other thing that’s worth mentioning is a lot of people think problems in schools is just inner city/ challenging schools. It isn’t.

A lot of the small ‘naice’ village schools will have more problems appointing heads than larger urban schools.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/10/2023 11:18

ellyeth · 05/10/2023 22:33

As another poster said, there is only one side of the story here. What is needed is a proper investigation.

That was probably me (among others), but sadly it tends not to suit those with an agenda to push who like to think they know everything despite not even being there

As with many school gate groups with a fresh story to share which rapidly gets twisted beyond recognition, so on social media

Boundoverbyacat · 06/10/2023 12:22

The other thing that’s worth mentioning is a lot of people think problems in schools is just inner city/ challenging schools. It isn’t.

far from it, surely it’s the opposite. Where I live in London all the schools in the borough are outstanding / good. Big city schools are usually more advanced, better funded and attract the best heads and teachers. That’s obviously not going to happen in the arse end of nowhere as the talent pool is so small.

EllaMaeve · 06/10/2023 12:35

LuluBlakey1 · 03/10/2023 19:34

What I read here is a school that has been badly led for a number of years. Staff have not liked it but have become very resistant to change because change means challenge. It sounds like there is a very negative culture amongst all staff. Changing a negative culture in a school is the hardest thing to do. Turning around a school with a positive culture that needs system change is much easier than turning around a school where the culture is so negative.Anyone coming in to change this will upset the negative staff. It is natural that there will be a significant turnover of staff during this time. When someone says 'I used to love my job....' what they often mean us 'I came in, did what I liked, how I liked and no one checked up on me. Now they do I don't like it.'

I work with new Heads in challenging circumstances. They all face resistance from staff when they take over schools- often the leadership team has embittered people who applied for the job and were not appointed and do not support the Head. Or they have new and less experienced people on the SLT and staff resent that and the people are still learning how to manage challenging staff. If the staff have been very anti the previous Head and his/her systems, the middle leaders have probably also done a weak job and are now being asked to step up and work differently and don't like that. New systems never bed down easily- some staff, often stuck in a rut, unwilling to do anything differently staff will resist them. It will be a tough couple of years. Teachers are quick to complain in these circumstances and what will happen is:

Some will get onboard quickly recognising what is needed.
Some will take a while but see the sense and buy into it.
Some will be unhappy and leave. The Head will appoint new staff who will support his/her ways.
Some will be remain and be very resistant but will have to make a decision- either get on board or leave

A strong Head will win over staff. They do have to make tough decisions. The ones who refuse to be won over and continue to be difficult and shit-stir will end up leaving one way or another.

Great post. I work in a similar job and have been a HT too.

I recognise all of what you say.

EllaMaeve · 06/10/2023 12:40

Platypuslover · 04/10/2023 21:38

There’s a school in Solihull toi like this. Unqualified, inexperienced, incompetent head. Beats me who gave her the job. The old head got an mbe for services in teaching before she retired. Instead of giving the job to deputy that was a teacher and knew how to run the school and was really good at it. The job went to someone who is rumoured to have stolen money from a free school she previously worked at and helped start up.

She is abusive to staff puts kids at risk by saying things like all the kids being taken out on could be on the safe guarding list or not have the forms signed before they let the parents freely film everything. And the comms are shocking. Like telling things to 6 year olds expecting them to pass on the message instead of a newsletter to parents.

she was off for some 18 months until literally the last day of school before the summer and things improved until then. No one knows where she went for all that time (for all I know she could have been in prison?!) and again in the new school year no comms suddenly the kids (7-8), are told not the parents again, to wear their pe kit all day for 2 days of the week instead of changing in separate class rooms like they did up to year 6 until the summer. When I tried to call to confirm it the lines were still closed 10 mins before school starts. Finally get through later in the day to be told it was in the newsletter. Well I checked them all and there was nothing of the sort! Nothing at all!

she needs to go she keeps taking back handers for pointless school branded stuff and wasted the budget on this. I mean let the kids bring their own bottles that are not damaging their teeth (unlike the one she wants parents to buy) and pencil cases and ratty dirty organiser things that hang on the back of the chairs causing obstructions.

she is also rude and refuses to see any parents regardless how often we request an appointment with her.

Follow the schools complaints procedure, which will take you to the Chair of Governors.

Remember to be accurate though. It is very unlikely that this headteacher is ‘unqualified’. What do you mean? Not a qualified teacher?

Cookiecrisps · 06/10/2023 17:08

Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/10/2023 11:18

That was probably me (among others), but sadly it tends not to suit those with an agenda to push who like to think they know everything despite not even being there

As with many school gate groups with a fresh story to share which rapidly gets twisted beyond recognition, so on social media

Show quote history

In this case, knowing this particular school leader, the investigation needs to happen. It says a lot when the staff reporting it to the newspaper are doing so anonymously. There is a culture of bullying and fear. This must be addressed and action taken.

TheMadGardener · 06/10/2023 20:57

Can't find the post but someone above mentioned staff being resistant to necessary changes. It also depends on the people management skills of the person making the changes!

I've experienced two different styles when I've been working in schools where a new head came in and wanted to make changes.

Management style 1 - new head came in, was pleasant to staff, said "you've all been doing an amazing job so far but some things need to change, I know we can all work together to make change happen because you're such a great staff." They explained the reasons for changes. Staff felt valued by new head and got on board happily with the changes/improvements, working hard for new head.

Management style 2 - new head came in, treated staff with disdain, said "I see Ofsted recently gave you a Good but everything I see here is inadequate to me, everything needs to change, if you want to be part of my team you'd better shape up, the staff at my last school knew how to work hard." They made changes without explaining anything (staff would come in and find resources removed/replaced with no warning), staff were bullied, threatened and told they were shit teachers. Staff felt completely worthless and left en masse.

Whattheactualhellpart2 · 06/10/2023 22:28

LuluBlakey1 · 04/10/2023 17:44

New headteachers will never win all staff over, even in a generally good, happy school with a positive culture. Many people find change difficult. Some, especially this who don't see the necessity for it or don't want change, will find it difficult and may not budge- which increases their unhappiness.

As I said a good Head will win some staff over quickly, some gradually and some not at all. Some will leave quickly and others who remain unhappy will have to be supported to work with change or supported to leave- there are various ways of doing both.

It is clear from looking at Ofsted that this school has been on a slow, downward journey for a number of years. The most recent Ofsted identifies middle and senior leadership issues and significant Literacy and planning concerns and mentions bullying of pupils as a previous concern. The school is not in a category and seems like it could be improved quite quickly. What is emerging is a 'culture' issue. Time will tell whether the SLT are the right people to lead. There will be new staff, obviously and that can be a good thing in building a more positive culture. The remaining staff need to try to contribute positively- I'm sure most are.

It's not a disaster, yet.

Show quote history

@LuluBlakey1 please can you clarify which Ofsted report you are referring to when stating ‘there were bullying concerns of pupils’

Whattheactualhellpart2 · 06/10/2023 23:15

Well the LA say there was 'historic bullying'. Ofsted mention it too. Staff might not like that but if it has come to the attention of the LA and Ofsted, something has gone on. Children are now telling Ofsted that it has improved so surely that's good?

@LuluBlakey1 you say ‘The LA say there was historic bullying’

The IMPORTANT question to ask is ‘who’ is the LA spokesperson in the context of the article?

Answer:
‘Communication team will liase with Collegues to provide a statement for journalist’

Which ‘colleague’prepared this statement? Need to think? 🤔

something has gone on - THAT you are correct about 😒

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