Animals treated better than humans by the NHS

[Letsgetouttahere2023]

Scary cheap money saving by the nhs!!

Would you be happy to be treated by a physicians assistant; someone with no medical qualifications! (Link to article below)

YABU - Yes I'd happily be treated by a "physican assistant"- someone with no medical degree and just a few weeks / months training

YANBU - Medcial care should be performed by someone with a medical degree and relevant post graduate training and exams, ie a Doctor

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/30/animals-treated-better-than-humans-say-doctors-row/

The issue is

A PA doesn't know what a PA doesn't know.

very one dimensional. Sadly often coupled with massive over confidence .

Leaves them lacking insight, lacking supervision, lacking regulation.... Big problems

Exactly, if posters actually read the article it's frightening what's planned by the government in spite of very vocal opposition from experts on the ground

The same as some doctors. Insufficient knowledge and over confident bordering on arrogance that does nothing to help patients.

@Sunshinenrain Can I ask what your niece actually does?

She spends time with the patients, documents symptoms, progress, responses to drugs, builds relationships & trust with the patients, listens and compiles all the information, so that it is all available and concise to be read by the consultant. It speeds up the consultation, ensures nothing is missed, allows the patient to explain at length, allows them to feel that they have been heard, and provides masses of extra valuable information to the doctors.

After a troubling experience in which a PA decided that my back pain was muscular, when in fact it was a symptom of a much more complex internal problem, I’m afraid that I’d always want to be seen by a doctor.
Luckily I’m able to advocate for myself and insisted on being seen by a doctor a few weeks later.

You could certainly be describing plenty of doctors who I’ve met both as a patient and a colleague. Drs don’t know what they don’t know and I’ve met plenty who haven’t known enough to correctly diagnose Dd with any of her multiple medical conditions. And over confident and don’t listen.

She does have diagnosis now but only because MN diagnosed her with her two main conditions and I went to the GP and said I think she has x and y. This was after years of appointments. Oh and three doctors missed her PE but a nurse diagnosed it.

even now, the gp rang her up last week told her her iron levels were “dangerously low”. Asked her if she’d been in an accident and lost a lot of blood recently (she hasnt), then realised she’s on blood thinners and told her he was worried she had internal bleeding. So do you know what he eventually decided to do……prescribe iron tablets! No fucking investigation into whether she has got internal bleeding or not. But yes, doctors are infallible and wonderful aren’t they. I seriously believe Dd is alive in spite of doctors. It’s a combination of MN, me and a great nurse who have saved her life.

It's two years not a few weeks training, and for certain tasks it's perfectly fine, noone questions paramedics!
They are meant to be used to take over things that you do not need to be a doctor to do.

This is what happens when people want free healthcare, don't often value it but don't want it to cost too much to the taxpayers either

Healthcare is free across Europe, yet don't have the issues we do and have far more Dr's and Nurses pr capita too....

And when Dr's make demands for more money and go on strike for long periods

Govt is refusing to negotiate and Dr's pay in real terms has fallen over 20% in the last 10 years, they are also leaving to go over seas and private sector.. what do we do when there are no Dr's ?

Alternatives have to be found and what will ultimately happen is a healthcare system which is no longer free

European systems mean the citizen pays far more than UK folk do... should prove popular...

The PA role in the states is fine and the hysteria surrounding it here is ridiculous. However, given our staffing crisis, there does seem to be a real danger that - and this is already happening - PAs are being left to the work of GPs under the 'supervision' of one GP who isn't even on site and discourages consults. What a horrible position for PAs and patients. This isn't what they trained for and it's not fair to patients. Private contractors are the bad guys here - why don't the doctors acknowledge this? Is it because they're being highly paid by private contractors for working part time hours? The fault is to do with a broken, rather corrupt healthcare system, not the role of a PA. Doctors turning on PAs is like shooting the messenger as their existence here is a symptom of the staffing crisis and could theoretically offer real support to overwhelmed doctors if correctly supported and used in a way that befits their job description. Unfortunately doctors here have become so militant and arrogant that they don't seem to want to think constructively about how patients could benefit.

The optics of doctors refusing to work full time hours, refusing to come to work, emigrating and retiring early while slating highly qualified people who could support them is akin to doctors skating paramedics caring for patients for hours in the back of ambulances. It's not their fault and it's a bit low. Dissing the experience or skill set of PAs is silly. These professionals could be a boon to patients if used as a doctor's best friend, as in the states. Doctors can do what they're trained to do and so can PAs. Criticising PAs is unlikely to create a dynamic where they can contribute effectively as they need to feel able to do what they can do and be able to step back when they've reached their professional limit. For that, they need to be appreciated and have their skill set validated, not criticised for existing and viewed with suspicion. They are highly trained and the course is tough. Bullying PAs won't help patients or doctors.

No one is saying doctors are infallible though are they? Do you seriously think someone with substantially less training who couldn't refer for any tests etc would be better? I'm curious to the logic of that.

I’m not saying they are any better (though ime an experienced, specialised nurse who you can also say has less training has been better), but mainly that they might be no worse.

I think it depends on the individual, and the experience they’ve had combined with how much curiosity they have and how much effort they’re prepared to put in to actually resolving the issue for someone as opposed to how quickly they can fob them off and get them out the door. Having a medical degree certainly doesn’t make someone infallible.