CMS Payments & Child Benefit - AIBU?

[august29]

Hi all

I'm a dad, not a mum, to clear that up before I start.

My wife and mother of our 3 kids thought she had a better offer and we ended up separating.

As part of the financial divide, she has a new efficient 4 bed detached house and new car both paid for outright so no big expenses for her. She also has a 1 bed flat she rents out and a small amount of cash - getting around £350pcm income off this after expenses.

The CMS tell me to give her what works out about 18% of my take home pay every month and she also gets the child benefit of just over £200 per month.

I have the children 102 nights per year, also driving around a lot and helping with clubs and pick ups on other days.

Now, every time they do some club or there is an expense for things like clothing, I am getting a message asking if I will pay half. I want them to have school lunches, but told I will have to send them with the money. Their schooling is located for her benefit, but when they're coming to me I'm getting requests to provide bus money for my eldest (3 different schools mean I can only pick up 2 and other gets bus).

I have been giving extra, but I'm feeling a bit hard done by, so would like some neutrals to offer their opinion and help me out here.

Her house and car expenses are very low because of the financial settlement (and I'm happy with that). We're in quite a cheap area for day-to-day living. She's now working full-time (first time) and on a decent wage. I'm already sending CMS and she has the child benefit.

So, AIBU if I start declining her requests for extra towards clubs, clothes etc. And is it reasonable for me to expect her to make sure she pays for the kids to have a hot dinner at school? I don't want the kids missing out, but feel like I need to draw the line somewhere. What would you expect the cms and child benefit to cover in this situation?

Thanks for reading.

Can only really answer this question by knowing your housing situation and income as well tbh.

If it made my children's lives easier I'd give whatever time and money I had. Hth.

You don’t have to pay any more but wouldnt it be nice to be able to look back and know you did your bit ?!

having children costs loads.

I would say you should be paying for hot meals when they are in your care as it is you that thinks they should have them, similarly for bus travel to yours as their travel is your responsibility when in your care.

Other than that, I think extras like club, school trips etc are a fair contribution for you to make, provided you too get some say in what they do.

You don’t have to pay any extra on top of maintenance. What did you agree in your parenting plan?

Dad’s often get the real shit end financially. Do you own a home etc?

Your contribution is not a top up, dependent on your exs finances. It is your contribution to the children you 50% created. It wouldn't matter if your ex shit diamonds. You still are 50% financially responsible for the roof over your children's heads, the food in their stomachs, the clothes on their backs, the shoes on their feet and all the costs of raising them.

Do you pay 50% of the costs? A quick Google suggests it costs about £900 a month so 50% of that would be £450. If so then yes, that should be covering your half and she should be covering the rest.

Your maintenance is reduced by the time you have the children because you're responsible for paying for them on those days.
So yes, bus fares, dinners, childcare etc on your days are all your responsibility
I don't understand not wanting to pay half of their clubs and uniforms etc these are additional expenses for their mum as well

This.

😂😂😂😂😂

Do you believe what you pay genuinely covers half of what the children cost? So clothes, uniform, food on the days they are with her, childcare etc plus things like school trips, holiday clubs that happen irregularly.

Are these clubs you both chose together or new since the separation?

Child maintenance is often over simplified just looking at income rather than actual circumstances

I assume the CM is lowered because you have them almost 30% of the nights per year? CM covers the costs of the children when they are with the other parent so you still need to cover the costs when they are with you, including school dinners on your days and about 30% of any shared costs like clubs, school trips, or clothing shared between houses.

I would imagine your children cost you more than 18% of your pay after tax when you were together

Can you afford to contribute more than the CMS amount? If you can’t, you can’t and that’s that. If you can then as a parent you should want the absolute best for your child so should do your best to provide that.

The resident parent’s income is not connected to what the non resident parent pays in child support, and it shouldn’t be.

Agreed, its ambiguous otherwise

But then the OP pays her Child maintenance?
So the ex wife is getting his child maintenance plus the 50% of all the clubs etc.
Doesn't make sense.
Also sounds like OP has his kids nearly 50% of the time too.

What ratio is your income to hers? How many years was her at home facilitating your career advancement.

Without the above information then I couldn't make a call. CMS is the minimum and hardly generous, I spend approx 50% of my income on my children. If she is getting Child benefit so not a particularly decent salary (location depending of course).

And by the sounds of it is definitely money for children activities etc.

I’m not sure why this is funny? When it’s true?

my ex got a shit deal when I got divorced and he still doesn’t own his own home and my husband now gives his ex more of his money that he keeps so also doesn’t have as good a standard of life as his ex.

If the OP pays maintenance and dinner money on days that follow his nights he really doesn’t have to pay any more. If he can afford to however ( why I asked about his home) if he can’t, he shouldn’t. Because she is living mortgage free and works full time and he’s already paying the legal amount.

Any women that wants more than this is just selfish. Kids never go without. In this situation they are well provided for. He should have a life too.

Oh come on. This OP is actually complaining about having to give his child bus fare on the days he has contact so the child can travel to his house.

And he wants to dictate how his ex organises school dinners. And have her pay for them, even on days that he has contact.

Men are often extremely good at complaining and painting themselves the victim of their own exes.

102 nights out 365 is not “nearly 50% of the time”. That’s not even one third of the time.

Personally I think you should give whatever the kids want and need when in your care and the mother does the same when in her care..

Do you see them for the whole 102 nights a year? Or do you mean you're in the 52 to 102 nights per year bracket for CMS calculation purposes? My children's father is in that bracket but sees them for the minimum 52 nights (his choice). He doesn't contribute outside of the CMS payments but we have a financial arrangements order that requires us to split the school-related expenses. If we didn't have that FAO, my understanding is he wouldn't be under any legal obligation to contribute beyond the CMS contribution. If you are in the 52-102 bracket and doing all 102 nights, then I don't think you would/should be expected to contribute more. If it's closer to 52 nights then it might be the right thing to do.

Your ex should get the child benefit as she has the kids more than you.
Her income from the flat is irrelevant.

You are legally responsible for child maintenance and the cost of the kids when they are with you. She's not unreasonable to ask for more money but you are not unreasonable to say no because you are fulfilling your legal obligation with the maintenance. The petrol cost of taking them to clubs is one of those costs that you need to bear because it's your time with them.

@StoneWashJeansWithAMatchingJacket
They sleep over at their mothers 80 nights more in the year.
However OP has said he has them on his days off too taking them to clubs etc. what he doesn't specify is if he is feeding them dinner etc. would be helpful to know.

There are a million ways in which the CMS is far too simple, a blunt instrument. Childcare costs when children are young should be factored separately, rates should change when kids enter secondary age to reflect the more expensive clothing costs, pocket money rates, phone contracts and tech needed at school. The CMS deliberately do not stipulate what it "should" cover so it leaves it to parents to slug it out with NRPs typically complaining that the RP is spending "their" money on nails and wine and the RP complaining that thet shoulder far more than 50% of the costs as well as doing the majority of the leg work.

OP, the divorce settlement really should not be treated as a relevant factor in ongoing maintenance - that was the agreement you reached so that's that. If a court decided it it will have been based on need. As pp said, the CMS you pay is already reduced to account for the theoretical costs you pay when the kids are with you, so yes you should pay bus fare and lunches on those days and if you can afford it without going hungry or cold, you should additionally contribute to costs such as uniform and trips, activity fees etc. I guarantee you every RP spends more than 18% of their salary on their kids.

Honestly it boils down to do you want them to have these things or not.

You want them to have hot dinners so you pay. A pack up never harmed anyone.

On your days you are responsible for getting them too and from school. If that’s a bus pass you pay.

If you want them at these clubs and the only way is to pay half then you pay half basically.

Theres no but but but. It’s basic if she won’t pay/it’s not her time. You pay or they don’t do it. You can’t force her to pay for clubs or hot dinners certainly not on your time and you certainly again can’t force her to spend on her time if she doesn’t want to.

So by all means say no to paying half. But also don’t moan if they then don’t go.