Who is in the wrong - vegan or manager?

[iloverobbrydon]

A group of friends go into a pub that do food. One of them is vegan. She looks at the menu and sees that there are no V or VE signs on the menu at all. Even for items that clearly veggie and vegan, the pub don't use the signs. However, they do list the ingredients and a description of the meal under the meal title.

There are 2 or 3 vegan options. One of them is a pasta where the ingredients are listed as pasta, tomato, basil etc. And have a little description of the taste. No animal products listed at all so the vegan orders this.

The meal comes out and it has a fried egg on top of it. The egg was not listed in the ingredients so she sent it back explaining why.

The manager who took the order is not happy because she never actually said she was vegan and they arent mind readers. They come out and say if you can't eat certain foods then you need to tell the staff to make sure that those things are actually 100% ok for you to eat.

It does escalate into a bit of an argument because the vegan is saying well if you list your ingredients then how am I to know that you only list some ingredients and not others? Where on your menu does it say how your menu works and that you won't list everything? That's just confusing. Either list everything or nothing. The manager is saying if you need a meal to not have an ingredient you need to tell us.

You can probably work out which one I am but I didn't want to write it one sided, just wanted to explain the situation and ask who you think is in the wrong here?

The vegan was wrong for not clarifying at the time of order.

That there would be an egg served on it which wasn't mentioned in the description?

I can't say I keep pasta in my cupboard for years, though a quick glance at a packet of dried pasta has an allergen label 'may contain eggs'.

Beside the point. When eating at a restaurant or pub, firstly I assume the food is fresh, and secondly, if I was a vegan I would clarify if the meal I was ordering was vegan if it didn't specify on the menu that is was suitable for vegans.

Other people are not mind readers.

No I really don't.

That as it didn't have a V or VE symbol next to the item, it is entirely reasonable to expect someone who has specific requirements to clarify when ordering to make sure.

I hate mayonnaise and always check when I order something that it has no mayonnaise served with it because often in this country there is random mayonnaise included on things one wouldn't expect.

Doesn't take long for the vegan bashing to begin does it.

Basically OP if you are a vegan you have to get used to being in the wrong.

You either get accused of shouting it from the rooftops (see pps with their oh so funny and original quips) or not telling everyone so that it's your fault if your tomato pasta comes with an egg on top.

I am quite particular with restaurants these days partly because I refuse to give money to those who make no effort either to offer at least one vegan option that isn't a salad with the main ingredients taken off (but no reduction in price- eg Halloumi without the halloumi so essentially a bowl of salad leaves for £12) or those who seem to treat you as a mythical creature whom they have never encountered in real life 😁.

I recently went to dinner with a friend (who eats everything) and I had told them in advance that I was vegan. I was given a menu which had black marker pen through 95% of the dishes (it was a tapas place). It actually made us laugh. Anyway the waitress was lovely and offered to check on a couple of options with the chef and we gave her a generous tip after a lovely meal.

My advice would be to check the menu beforehand in future.

PS the manager sounds like a dick!!

The customer service and menu at the pub sound terrible, BUT:

If something doesn’t specifically say it’s vegan, you need to ask.

a lot of pasta is not vegan. Even dried pasta can contain egg, so you need to check. Also, coloured pastas are often not vegan as the dark colourings contain squid ink.

salt and vinegar crisps are also often not vegan as they often contain milk.

cough syrup is often not vegan as it frequently contains honey.

The May contain is on a lot of things and is just a legal coverall as it has been produced in a factory environment where egg is.

other than filled pasta I don’t think I have been to a restaurant that serves fresh pasta certainly not a pub as that would either mean making it or spending more money

Supermarket pasta that can be kept in the larder for years doesn't contain egg but I would expect the pasta served in any top-notch restaurant to definitely contain eggs and any restaurant that clearly wasn't top-notch may or may not and it would be ridiculous not to check if avoiding eggs was important to me.

A vegan ordering pasta in a restaurant without checking whether the dish vegan is as silly as a vegan buying an unfamiliar packet of biscuits and eating them without reading the ingredients list. It's absolutely well known that some will contain egg in the recipe so not asking is proof enough that you don't really care.

That is what the campaign would do yes, what food packaging does and what a lot of menus now do.

allergies are potentially very gangrenous and should be done. When I went to an AI hotel the buffet had all what each dish was and then symbols underneath if it contained one of the allergens

if the op had taken a punt though on the pasta not containing egg that is on her and the manager could be annoyed. Not saying a dish contained a fairly massive ingredient is on them. It is an integral part of the dish.

that said DD is vegan and unless clearly specified does check

That’s just nonsense.

You are embarrassing yourself by comparing bird faeces with a safe food that some people choose not to eat.

I know a very principled vegan who is quite clear that they do like the taste of meat and dairy but do not eat it for ethical reasons. They are perfectly able to articulate their reasons without resorting to childish “eew, that’s disgusting, I can’t even bear to have it near me” childishness. And they accept that by paying money to a restaurant that serves meat and dairy to other people they are supporting the continuing consumption of such products, so they often politely decline meals out to non-vegan restaurants.

Egg not listed is bad but even if they have signs on menus it really is best to point out something that is serious to you. I am allergic to seafood so have to be careful I always state this as it’s a nasty allergy. Whether a food mistake hurts your body or your soul it’s down to the diner to point this out.

Other people’s morals and ethics just means more dead animals for you to enjoy, right meathead?!

This is what I was thinking @iloverobbrydon - if something just says ‘pasta’ you need to check it isn’t fresh egg pasta (we have a lot of egg allergic people in our family!).

Similarly if you are in a chip shop you can’t presume the chips are vegan unless it’s stated because a lot of places fry them in the same fryer as the fish and the fish batter has eggs.

Eggs get in bloody everything!

Clearly the menu should actually show the allergens and whether things are vegi/vegan, but places don’t so always check.

You assume wrong in most cases. It’s a pub, most pubs don’t serve fresh pasta and if they do, many say so as a selling point. The pasta is besides the point. It is the fried egg on top that is not mentioned when the restaurant had the space to describe the other main ingredients and the flavours. Egg is a known allergen and it is often listen in tiny print on menus in many food establishments.

People may not be mind readers but few would expect to order a tomato pasta dish and have it brought to them with a fried egg on top when it was never mentioned anywhere and something like that is mentioned on most menus.

OP was polite about it and didn’t deserve the treatment she received regardless of being vegan.

Yeah the manager is wrong but was the actual pasta vegan anyway? Isnt Pasta made with egg unless they specify?

I don't understand the snappy responses to the suggestion the OP could have just removed the egg and ate the rest. OP has said:

"I can't eat that as I'm vegan" and "I mean, what if I just don't like eggs??"

This, to me, implies there are no allergies at play and she can eat eggs but chooses not to due to being vegan. Having previously been vegetarian I don't think it is an unreasonable suggestion she doesn't eat the egg but eats the rest seeing as she has eaten animal products previously.

Comparing an egg to dog meat, dead flies, and pigeon shit is completely ridiculous.

Recently, I have been to restaurants they have asked at the point of ordering for any dietary requirements or allergies

Surely, it is up to the customer to make their requirements available ?

Because the egg has been cooked in her name.

I don't understand what you mean.

@Thementalloadisreal

I am actually a vegan and that comment was a joke.

@ShelleyPercy

dried pasta can be kept for years. It t doesn’t mean everybody does.

May contain egg just means it is made in a factory that handles eggs. It doesn’t mean it has eggs in. It’s still vegan.

1. it’s weird there was an egg on top of pasta to begin with.
2. the manager is in the wrong if the egg wasn’t listed then how were you to know to not ask for the egg.

Next time I go to a restaurant and order a pasta dish, as an experiment, I'm going to ask them to make sure there is no fried egg on top and see what batshit looks they give me.

Exactly. It’s not as if being a vegan is having an allergy, so your suggestion seems sensible enough, although the manager is in the wrong to serve things that aren’t listed.

The vegan thing is a red herring that has too many posters foaming at the mouth.

As a non vegan I still wouldn’t want it expect a bloody egg in the top of tomato pasta and would be just as annoyed as the OP.