Should families get a tax allowance for dependant children

[Clariee45]

Just a thought from another thread about there being no help for the squeezed middle who feel they are hardly better off than those on universal credit. Wouldn’t it just be fairer if those families not entitled to universal credit were given an extra tax allowance equivalent to the adult personal allowance for each child.
Why are adults given a tax allowance that acknowledges the basic costs of needing to eat and have a roof over there head etc and yet parents are expected to provide all this (plus 80% childcare costs) for their children completely out of their taxed income

Why do people want to pay less and less tax but then complain about a lack of services / benefits / health care / education / welfare etc. Do people really not understand the correlation?

The tax burden is high, salaries are crap & the services are pretty crap too. And there's disparity in tax with paye hit harder than other income.

It’s not a tax allowance. It’s a means tested benefit.

I'm sorry if you are struggling but I really think that people should only have children they can afford.

We have a tax allowance for our dépendant dcs (over 18’s I mean). In France. Perfectly reasonable I would have thought. Once they start work it goes obviously.

What happens if you can afford a baby but you get to 10 and a parent or parents income drops due to all manner of scenarios not within their control like death or disability?

By definition it isn't disposable, because it is used for essential expenditure.

The social contract needs to encompass child raising because society as a whole needs future workers/taxpayers - and preferably well-raised, law-abiding, well-educated ones.

The childfree are not going to be happy living in a dystopian society even if they're a few quid better off because there was less support for child raising.

Yes but they go to school as something they are entitled to in their own right, they are a person after all, just we you had they right as a child. They’re right to school is not given as a ‘benefit’ to me. I don’t look at parents with 10 children and think how unfair we are funding all that schooling when we only have 2 at school. I see it as each of those individual children being given the same right I enjoyed.

I'm sorry if you are struggling but I really think that people should only have children they can afford.

Why wasn't this the case 40 yrs ago?

And people are having what they can afford hence the birth rates

I think universal child benefit should be reinstated. I'd vote for that, even though we do operate under the threshold for losing it. I think it's a good principle, easy to administer and acts to reinvest the higher earners in the social contract.

No-one forces you to have children, and they are provided with:
free healthcare
free education to 18
free dental & optical services

You also receive a child benefit allowance, and free hours of nursery childcare. You don't pay Council tax for them.

Society can't afford for people not to have children. We need future workers/taxpayers.

Your pension will be paid from the tax my children will pay once they start working.

The idea a child is a personal lifestyle choice like a pet is completely batshit.

Asking to pay less tax is ... yes, absolutely a benefit funded by the tax payer. No different to ISA allowances.

Thinking that you are somehow not asking for a hand out is pretty deluded.

But it’s still something you’re benefitting from that child free aren’t.

And there are already mechanisms in place to help with child care costs.

If you genuinely can’t afford them, you would be entitled to UC.

You’re not entitled to UC so you can afford childcare, you just want to spend the money on nice things.

People with children get child benefit

The social contract needs to encompass child raising because society as a whole needs future workers/taxpayers - and preferably well-raised, law-abiding, well-educated ones.

This is far too reasonable

But the child free squeezed middle won’t be getting those services for free. They’ll be paying for them..

So it’s not a benefit.

No. People should not be encouraged to have even more children. Two is quite enough for anybody.

People with children get child benefit

No, some people do.

No. People should not be encouraged to have even more children. Two is quite enough for anybody.

@Viviennemary why do you think people are having more than 2 dc?

Can see both sides. Gov needs people to have children so they grow up and pay taxes.

The High income child benefit charge seriously needs updating as does the higher rate bracket at £50k. £50k is not a high wage anymore.

It is completely unfair that a couple on £49,999 each get full child benefit but another couple with just one earning £60,000 don’t.

I don't understand why anyone thinks any gov will do anything about immigration. We need it, there are more over 65s than under 15 yr olds. In the 60s there were 5 workers to 1 pensioner, now it's 3:1 & soon will be 2:1.

We need immigration whilst we have a capitalist system.

No idea. You tell me.

This is a depressing discussion.

The child free and those with children are broadly in the same boat - everyone is skint, of course having kids costs money, and of course society needs children or by definition the society is dying.

We need universal (modest) child benefit as we had pre-2010 (fuck you Osborne), decent support for those genuinely struggling (whether with children or not) and subsidised childcare so parents can work in order to pay tax and grow the economy. These things exist in Europe, we should have these bloody basics in the UK. Thanks to the Tories we're all skinter than we should be.

@Viviennemary do you understand how to interpret birth rate?

definition the society is dying.

looking at our productivity levels we are already dying