Should families get a tax allowance for dependant children

[Clariee45]

Just a thought from another thread about there being no help for the squeezed middle who feel they are hardly better off than those on universal credit. Wouldn’t it just be fairer if those families not entitled to universal credit were given an extra tax allowance equivalent to the adult personal allowance for each child.
Why are adults given a tax allowance that acknowledges the basic costs of needing to eat and have a roof over there head etc and yet parents are expected to provide all this (plus 80% childcare costs) for their children completely out of their taxed income

There did use to be an extra tax allowance for single parents which matched the marriage tax allowance (pre abolition and reinstatement). Id like to see that reinstated and for the child benefit tax charge to be higher for single parents.

It’s about fairness in the tax system, sure we could ‘try’ to pull in extra taxes by just increasing everyone’s tax tomorrow but it wouldn’t be very fair. Lack of fairness reduces tax revenue ultimately as people tend to not think it very fair when they are not much better off compared to being on UC (as many families find) so don’t bother doing anything to increase their income. Parents facing 80% marginal tax rates between 50-60k turn down that promotion or overtime despite being one of the few people able to do that job so hospitals have to spend thousands head hunting abroad or paying agency staff. How much gets spent in UC administration for families who wouldn’t need it/be eligible if they just had to pay a little less tax. It’s a ridiculous system

I would be really interested to know if @Thatladdo is in fact a man, going by the user name.

Because when someone suggests monetising a woman's uterus I would be really interested to know whether they actually have one themselves.

It's very easy suggesting things to force women into having children when you aren't the one taking the financial, medical, and emotional risks that come with pregnancy, childbirth and parenting.

It's also sort of incel-ish to suggest women should be forced to be impregnated by a man or else forfeit their right to a pension or be financially detrimented by it.

Unless children really can survive on fresh air then how on earth is a parent being able to keep 2.5k a year more of their own earned income per child better off than someone who doesn’t have the expense of a dependant child??? Please explain how you think parents are able to spend less than 2.5k a year in raising a child??

I mean the details I asked for where things like

How does someone prove they are infertile - which tests prove this
How does someone prove they are gay
Does someone have to jump through every hoop such as IVF to justify their infertility

No financial values required

Regardless,
Im sorry for your loss

Little bit late after calling me distasteful for mentioning it really isn't it

Spoiling for a fight.

No, asking questions. You have already told one women to calm down and now I am apparently being overly emotional for asking you questions about your proposal. Do you always call women emotional when they ask you questions you can't answer?

The average cost of childcare is 6.5k but you didn't want that to be subsidised because you didn't think your tax should have to pay for it

So this feels hypocritical

How does that solve any problems? It means everyone would have to do a tax return and it would cost more to give it to everyone then take some back in tax.

Ah. So you think that because a parent on £30k has more that they need to spend their money on, then them being permitted to keep more of their tax means they’re not being paid more than their non-parent colleague on £30k.

This could really spice up the tax system. Can I, a single childless person, get a tax break on my £30k because my disposable income has to go further than that of my colleague Helen, who has a husband also earning £30k and therefore gets to live on twice what I earn?

@Clariee45 children survive because you chose to have them so you provide for them.
If I choose to go on 3 holidays a year, could I have a tax break? I can't afford it otherwise

I have to pay more for my heating because I live in an area not served by mains gas

Can I get some tax breaks over those who live in a mains gas area?

I also have to pay more for transport because I live in an area with no public transport. I will take my tax break for that please 😃

I mean this could open up a whole range of complicated tax calculations!

I wouldn’t be opposed to a household based tax allowance with some additional tax free income for those with children as long as those who chose not to work had a negative allowance for the household and the allowance was the same whether the household had one or two adults (or more in the case of polygamous households).
Something along the lines of £22,000 for childless households, £29,000 for those with one child and £35,000 for those with multiple children however each adult not working through choice would have a negative allowance of £20,000 reducing the allowance to £2,000 for childless couples with a housewife or househusband, £9,000 for families with a stay at home parent and one child and £15,000 for those with multiple children and a stay at home parent (the reduction equating to £4000 in additional tax being paid to cover lost pension contributions and the loss to the economy).

😊
I cant ever remember calling a women emotional when I couldnt answer a question.

How does someone proove they are infertile? Quite simple for a man its semen analysis, females have a number of options including blood tests, ultrsound scans to name a couple. I did touch on this answer earlier.

How does someone proove they are gay? As I understand it the test we use today in the uk is self identification, your not expected to proove, demonstrate or act it out infront of a panel of judges.

Does someone have to jump through every hoop such as IVF to justify their infertility? No, see answer one.

Hope this helps.

So, OP, how do we know you're any good at this vital job of raising children?

Before we, as a country, cough up more tax to subsidise you I'd like to see proof you'll do a good job of producing and raising educated, productive, law abiding, good future adult citizens (disability not withstanding before someone shouts "eugenics!").

After all, you don't get to just chose yourself for a job in any other avenue, do you, and you might be shit at this one you're appointing yourself to at everyone else's expense.

I want it to be subsidised for those who need it subsidised e.g. those on UC, students etc. We paid 13.5k a year in childcare not long ago so I’m not unfamiliar with the costs of childcare, especially given that certain months we had to borrow money to cover the cost. However I just disagree that I was some how more virtuous having be a working mother than my friend who was a SAHM and so entitled to their money to pay for that, I do agree parents should have to pay tax on childcare costs so agree with TFC.
All I would like is some fairness in the tax system so that it acknowledges children as having the same right to a tax free allowance within the family as adults currently receive

shouldn’t have to pay tax on childcare

Government uses the tax system to drive public policy objectives- eg pension savings. There’s no reason the tax system couldn’t take account of people with, say, a maximum of two dependent children under 18. That’s done in lots of other countries. In order to drive desirable behavior for society (ie that those not eligible for benefits can still afford to have children).

There are subsidies for public transport and indeed a price cap on domestic fuel including heating oil. The government facilitates our lives in many ways.

So you are pissed you couldn't afford to be sahp.??
Should of worked the financial aspects out before hand and got your head around it

Who is going to plug that shortfall?

Child-free people of mumsnet seem to be forgetting we all need children to pay future taxes to fund future major illnesses, infrastructure, retirement and old age. Flip the question to absurdity, why should parents pay to raise taxpayers to fund people who are child free? Equally idiotic. If everyone was child free by choice society would literally break down within 20 years time.

Anyone! as long as it's not OP! 😂

Do your really think fertility is a switch that's either on or off?

And that people go to clinics for tests and are then told that they are infertile and can't have children?

I mean if you have no uterus or you have had chemo maybe? But someone with endometriosis may get pregnant or they may not. Someone with PCOS may get pregnant or they may not. Someone with a unicornate uterus may have multiple miscarriages before they carry a baby to term. They may not be infertile but after 5 or 6 miscarriages they may be emotionally unable to continue trying. So no, for us "females" it's not that easy actually.

How many miscarriages does a woman have to have in order to not lose her pension?

I cant ever remember calling a women emotional when I couldnt answer a question.

that's not what I said

But on the plus side with your system the number of gay people is going to soar. The easiest way to not be penalised for not having children if you are single and childfree is to declare yourself gay.

Alternatively you could get your husband to declare himself trans and you are in a lesbian relationship and therefore ineligible for any of your financial penalties rendering it meaningless.

I’m not asking you to cough up any tax though? This is simply having a portion of the parents earned income disregard when the tax to be taken off the parents is calculated

People are taking all of this way too personally. Taxes and benefits should work for the benefit of society. It doesn't really matter what we as individuals would prefer or feel we deserve. We all pay all the time for things we don't directly use because it's good for society as a whole. We need a continuous supply of young people, so either encourage people to have more babies or rely on migration, take your pick.

What proof do we ask for before people get uc child allowances?

I'm pretty sure the childfree posters haven't forgotten that given how often its pointed out to them

But given the OP is salty that her taxes subsidise other peoples childcare I'm not sure sure childfree ones are the ones unwilling to contribute to society here