To get pleasure out of running a home? (well sometimes!)

[chocomax]

Firstly I don't "love" housework but on those days, weeks, months where everything in the house is ticking over nicely and everything is clean, tidy, well organised, pleasant and to my liking I do actually get real pleasure out of it as well as a sense of satisfaction and pride in it. When the house is warm and cosy, when we have tasty healthy, freshly made food, fresh bedding and nice things to do at home and so on I do think to myself, I did that, I made all this happen and I do enjoy it.

Its not all I do I work too and of course my DH helps but I'm the one who knows what needs doing. It also doesn't always come together and that is fine too c'est la vie, but when it does all come together am I unreasonable to enjoy it and take that bit of credit, even if it is just internally to myself?

I’m like this too so I don’t think you’re being unreasonable.

I grew up with a very controlling mother who expected everything to be done where, when and how she wanted. Even when I became an adult and moved out she’d come to my home and try to take charge (she wasn’t doing the actual jobs for me just telling me how I was going to do it and standing over me whilst I did it). I was treated like an incompetent fuckwit.
When DS was born he was a really easy baby who fell into a routine quite quickly, so my mother had to sabotage it which caused quite a bit of upset and distress (couldn’t bear to see me “succeeding” at something).

Although I’ve been non contact for a few years it has left its consequences in that if I’m not on top of things and organised then I do feel a failure. I am getting better (DD and I have made cookies this afternoon and I still haven’t washed up the baking trays). So yeah I completely get how you feel, maybe for different reasons that you do (and when everything is going how I want it to it does feel like two fingers up to her).

I do get what you mean.. my house is not in a very manageable state right now due to lots of jobs / projects that need to be done. But I dream of the day everything is organised and clean and I've baked a cake and the house is warm and cosy 😁.. probably makes me very lame but I don't care! I do get pleasure from other things in life too 😆. I also think a clean and organised home really helps my brain feel less cluttered and then I can focus on other things too..

I feel you OP! DH and I are scruffy garbage people by nature, we lived in student-y squalor together in our early 20s. We’ve just had our second child and often give each other little high fives for successfully keeping things going- clean house, healthy meals, etc. It’s very satisfying. He had a loving but chaotic and somewhat neglectful childhood, I had a rigidly organised but emotionally lacking one, so I think a nice home and family life means a lot to both of us.

I find housework tediously boring, but every Monday and Friday I hoover the house, clean the bathrooms, tidy up surfaces etc and I am pleased when I do it! All I then have to do is keep on top of it in general in the week and it keeps itself nice enough.
My dad hoovers every day and I would never go to this extreme though.
Actually I just glanced across the room and there is a full basket of clean washing to put away which is another boring task but one that I have to do every goddamn day.

I get a lot of satisfaction from "creating" so I do have a lot of craft hobbies but it also applies in terms of things like decorating, house work etc. I don't always enjoy the process of getting there! But for me a lot of satisfaction comes from the end result which makes the work worth it.

Its one of the reasons I've never had a cleaner. The clean home just wouldn't give me the same satisfaction as doing it myself. Likewise decorating, gardening, all sorts! It means I'm really busy but I like that. But then my job is wfh and somewhat part time. And my DC are adults. So I have the time.

So I understand that feeling of pleasure you get. Its the feeling of a job well done and it is satisfying. I don't think that's sad at all.

Same here.

Giving myself permission to enjoy homemaking, if not actual housekeeping, makes the domestic drudgery more tolerable.

I grew up under the wing of an utterly fabulous women’s libber of the 1970s and I was taught from the cradle to despise all things domestic.

But I really value having a cosy, peaceful home; a little sanctuary from all the troubles of the outside world. And it doesn’t happen by itself. Having a nice home and family life is the whole point of why we work hard imo.

I’m not particularly talented at it, so when everything is ticking along nicely, I do take pleasure in it. I wouldn’t go telling my sil though.

I hate doing housework, I'm naturally messy and lazy so it doesn't come naturally to me to keep the house tidy.
BUT I have learnt techniques that make it bearable/sometimes even enjoyable for me.
I like nice smelling cleaning sprays (zoflora etc) and the smell of bleach makes me feel like the house is really clean. I like whacking my hair up, shoving on leggings and a baggy t-shirt, blasting loud music that I can sing and dance along too as I clean and try and think of it as my alone time 😂
I also love when it's all done, it's clean, smells great and I can light a nice candle.
I also genuinely enjoy batch cooking etc and I have this almost need to make sure we always have healthy delicious food available and essentials like toilet roll etc (I guess from not having much money at all growing up although we never really went without, we are on a low wage so I want to make sure DC especially don't feel poor it deprived 😂)

I absolutely get complete satisfaction out of what you've described. I feel like my life is in chaos if my home is!

I like a clean and tidy home with a lovely meal cooking in the oven and fresh sheets.

I fucking loathe the tasks I have to do to get there. Cleaning is so tedious, endlessly hanging up washing, putting it away. Changing sheets. Loading the dishwasher. On and on and on. It's dull and no sooner have I done it, I need to do it again. Maybe if I succeeded in running a home we'll I'd find a sense of achievement but mostly I just find it overwhelming and stressful, and the end result is a mildly clean, mildly cluttered house.

I like it too OP, I get a lot of satisfaction from having an orderly home and wholesome food for my family.

I could definitely be a SAHM and enjoy it. Unfortunately I worked so hard to qualify in my field that I darent have a break to do that, but I am PT.

I should probably mention that I do have a weekly cleaner…! That definitely helps.

Ah @OP - I do get your point - it's horses for courses . My house is not perfect - not by any means but I do like it being clean ( if not perfectly tidy ) and family coming in and something nice for dinner smells nice - to be clear in our house DH DS & I share the cooking - not "womens' work ) . I do some housework now I am retired DH retired and he can manhandle a hoover like nothing else - it bores the pants off me - the harder bits like taking the hoover upstairs - so we have a cleaner once a fortnight which just keeps on top of it & then I can do the more fiddly bits to make it nice.

And me. No better place to be x

Of course it’s not unreasonable. I wonder whether your SIL took what you said as an implied criticism of her, if she’s feeling a bit sensitive and defensive on the subject. It’s funny how much we internalise social expectations around domesticity.

I love it when the house is clean and sparkling, bedding fresh, everything smells lovely. Very nice and satisfying! Then my black, long haired German Shepherd brings me back to reality as he trots through the house wafting clouds of hair off him and usually a sulfuric fart to go with it too. sigh 🤣🤣🤣

This is what I was trying to get across!

I wish I could feel like you do. Generally I just feel that the load is always on me and that no one else really appreciates it. It's just taken for granted.

When I lived alone I felt so much better about it because other people weren't taking the benefit (and sometimes the credit!!) for it.

It's a huge pity people keep making my exact point back at me.

In the original post, my entire point was that it's unfortunate that these were default ideals expected of women, because not all women thrive in that sphere. I took pains to emphasise that I don't think that's a bad thing at all, and I don't begrudge my mum because I'm the same.

Btw, since you asked, my father was a high earner too (though not as high performing as my mother), but also excellent domestically (often smoothing out the chaos and conflict my mother regularly created, such as hiring and firing multiple domestic employees in rapid succession like it was a corporation, having a meltdown anytime children were being children, etc). That's why I believe that gender roles serve no one. If he had been a SAHD for example, or even 80% responsible for the household, that would have been enough for normalcy.

Oddly enough my current marriage mimics those dynamics (though far less extremely and dysfunctionally of course – even with me in charge, my house would be messy but at least meet the bare minimum health and safety standards, and my kids would attend school most of the time ;)). My husband is more suited to the domestic sphere than I am, and domestic work is still my worst nightmare.

I think both inclinations (domestic vs corporate – although I am aware I'm polarising them arbitrarily) are to be appreciated equally. That was my original fairly non-controversial statement, which lots of PP have taken issue with just for the sake of it.

Of course I'm aware of all the social context and baggage around Angel in the House-esque simultaneous idealisation and devaluation of female domestic labour, and I'm aware as a society we're still crucially and validly pushing against that, but possibly (or perhaps naively) a more evolved society centuries down the line can approach this with a gender-neutral lens?

Sorry, I still struggle to understand your exact point. Not everyone is drawn to certain things and that's fine. At no point did I dictate that anyone has to love housework, love earning money, etc. I'm certainly not judging you or belittling you.

Indeed, I think we both have the same premise: I find some of these things inherently unenjoyable, and am aware few people actively enjoy or excel at these things. It is precisely because of those reasons, that all the more I appreciate those who are drawn to some of these things.

"You have said you'd appreciate both earning money and domestic work equally. Me? Not really." – Sure, we're all shaped by our own experiences. I didn't for one second think my preference/perspective would be universally shared. In fact, that's why I posted it – if I thought it was universal and screamingly obvious I wouldn't have bothered!

As stated in the post directly above, I'm aware there's a lot of debate and nuance to be had around the particular field of housework (often called the third shift). But generally, my statement of appreciation was as innocuous as saying "I appreciate those who are good artists", "I appreciate those who are good athletes", etc.

I understand what you're saying. I really hope we can get there someday where it is, as you say, gender neutral but it seems to be so ingrained that it sometimes does feel impossible.

I think one of the big issues is that, generally, men seem to be able to pick and choose what they do around the house (or even when it comes to childcare, 'oh, he isn't good with babies so I do everything but he loves the toddler stage so does more then' is something I've heard/read more than once) such as he might like cooking but doesn't like cleaning the bathroom whereas generally, women just have to suck it up and do housework whether they like it or not.

My husband is more 'domesticated' than I am too, I hate 99% of cleaning, organising etc but of course, it must be done unfortunately. 😂

I just can't get on top of mine to keep it nice. I am ALWAYS behind - like on a hamster wheel. Sometimes I feel like just filling bin bags and starting again.

Yanbu, I feel the same and feel mentally better when everything's running smoothly.

This is an interesting debate! My own mother was not designed well for the role of housewife which she ended up being because she wanted to be at home for her children. She didn’t want to be at home for her home! I am much more organised than she is and I give quite a lot of energy to mt home - keeping it orderly- but that’s because I get depressed by chaos and disorder and it’s worth the output of my energy to keep it calm.

I do wonder what it will look like in a few generations. Neither of our kids (boy and girl) are interested in domesticity so I guess it depends on whether they earn enough to outsource it. Or if they prefer to live in chaos than to clear up.

But to get back to the OP, your SIL was very rude!

YANBU! I love sticking on a podcast and sorting out my home as I listen, then sitting down with a coffee afterwards. I also like cooking most of the time, although I don't think I'd do it everyday if I wasn't a mum.

The flipside of this is that if my home is messy and I can spot places that need cleaning I get really grumpy because I don't like it, whereas other people seem more able to live with mess.