To get pleasure out of running a home? (well sometimes!)

[chocomax]

Firstly I don't "love" housework but on those days, weeks, months where everything in the house is ticking over nicely and everything is clean, tidy, well organised, pleasant and to my liking I do actually get real pleasure out of it as well as a sense of satisfaction and pride in it. When the house is warm and cosy, when we have tasty healthy, freshly made food, fresh bedding and nice things to do at home and so on I do think to myself, I did that, I made all this happen and I do enjoy it.

Its not all I do I work too and of course my DH helps but I'm the one who knows what needs doing. It also doesn't always come together and that is fine too c'est la vie, but when it does all come together am I unreasonable to enjoy it and take that bit of credit, even if it is just internally to myself?

@chocomax Good on you!

I feel the same when everything is going well, there are certain jobs at home I detest but the satisfaction that it’s done and looks nice at the end of it is lovely. My children (teens) also notice and appreciate it which I also love.

The fact that, sooner or later, it all needs doing again!

YANBU to like what you like OP. But for me, it's not the enjoyment of everything ticking over nicely that's 'bad'. It's that it never lasts, so if I placed a lot of importance on that I'd never get off the hamster wheel. The way you talk about 'makes it all come together' sounds like it's an onerous task and for me, while I have enjoyed the moments where it has ,something else has come along almost instantly to ruin it so ... short-lived. Makes it drudgery for me, even though I do enjoy the end result.

I can see myself taking great pleasure in it if I was a SAHM like @MmmALovelyBitOfSquirrel and had nothing else to focus on but alongside a job? Not really.

Your SIL was rude though.

Okay fine, you've convinced me to get off my arse. The bedding! The clean bedroom! The food! I want all of that in my future.

I don’t ‘love’ housework etc, but I flippin love the end result of it. I’m currently snuggled on the sofa with the cat on tinternet and have a spotless house, fresh flowers and a wax melt (fresh linen I think) on, it’s great. Anybody could pop round, I even have a homemade cake (thanks MIL) in the tin. Coffee and Walnut. Life feels good with a nice house, I’m going to have a Nanna nap now then make dinner so we’re all eaten and cleared away before Strictly.
I lived in a dump of a studio flat for years, it never looked nice, so 20 years down the line to have a lovely, clean welcoming home, is important to me.

You enjoy what you enjoy, it isn't unreasonable. I'd stop saying DH ''helps'' though, he's just as responsible as you are for the house.

It isn't something I understand personally, doing the house stuff is boring and just something that must be done to me.

Don’t feel bad, it’s not a regular thing 🤣

I hate housework but it's nice looking round and seeing everything tidy and in its place, kitchen clean and organised, shopping done etc. No kids at home anymore so it stays in good order a bit longer 😉

Don’t think this is unreasonable at all.
I can sort of relate: I’m a lone parent so I do it with minimal input and on top of a FT job and there’s definitely a satisfaction in having everything ticking over nicely, particularly when you’re doing other things as well.

I think if it was the only thing I did well I might find it a bit boring and stifling. It’s one of many strings to bow.

Yanbu

Yes I love it once I can motivate myself to get stuck in and start doing it. Very satisfying

There are all kinds of people to make the world go round. You should honour and celebrate who you are and what makes you happy. Your SIL is probably thinking in terms of social status but really, domestic work has equal value to corporate work. I'm sure there are men "made" for domestic work too.

For all her love for us, my own mother hasn't a single domestic bone in her body. She was a high flyer at work, but negligent and terrible and impatient in terms of running the household. She'd outsource every single thing. While we had many material and educational advantages, it wasn't a nice way for kids to grow up.

I don't begrudge her (maybe if she was born today, she would be child free, or have my dad help out way way more). I'm very much like her – being a housewife would be my worst nightmare. But because of my experience growing up in a very undomestic household, I appreciate the value that every single type of person brings to the world.

@JaneIntheBox I can see what you mean but its all just habits in my view, so if you just habituate to doing it however it suits you washing on at night for the following morning, hanging it up before work, sweeping / washing the kitchen floor as part of the evening routine, beds changed on a schedule it just sort of becomes automated like brushing and flossing your teeth. Equally sitting scrolling on your phone which is fine if you are just zoning out but when you have other stuff to do then it can be a bad habit of just procrastinating so all I am doing is swapping a bad habit for a habit that gets me closer to where I want to be.

What I mean by that is that yes he does domestic chores, off his own bat and at my instruction but its my master plan if you see what I mean, I'm the boss in that respect.

I love it as there are only 2 of us...and dh loves cleaning!!! House is always organised and tidy, which is how I like it

The problem with comparing domestic and corporate work is that. Everyone 'has' to do domestic work. Whether they like it or not, whether they choose to outsource it or otherwise it's still something to be done.
And society judges women by these tasks, no matter what else they have achieved elsewhere!
But obviously you can choose your job, nobody expects an interior designer to do the work of a doctor, and vice versa.
So really turn the question on its head. Why can we accept that job wise people are good at different things but somehow, when it comes to domestic work, all women are supposed to be great at it??

Either it's piss easy and anybody can do it, or it's not and a skill that deserves respect, in which case 'outsourcing' as you say is the logical solution, to someone more capable. Just the way you'd hire a plumber or electrician instead of DIY.

I can understand it impacting your childhood if your mother kept forgetting that it was World Book Day or whatever, or didn't have any parties while other kids did. But what's wrong with her not doing any cooking and cleaning? Or was it just her not spending time with you and not the 'domestic work' itself?

I'm neurodiverse and while I have bad executive functioning I'm great at whatever I choose to hyperfocus on. If I was a SAHM you can bet I'd be a domestic goddess! I'm quite a good cook for a start.

But focus is very tiring for me and after giving all that to work I have none left for home. If I cook lazy meals, or am messy it's not because I 'can't' see the mess or am a bad cook. I just don't have the energy for it after masking all day.

That doesn't work for me. But I'm neurodiverse, so maybe it works for normal people? Idk. I cannot do bits of things here and there, I can't keep habits up and can't sequence things.
Despite my above comment though one thing I'm quite proud of is cooking from scratch. Although I call them 'lazy' meals they're all for example meat, potatoes/rice/noodles and veggie with some seasoning on top .I use frozen veggies, but we don't have frozen pre-prepared food except for some nice pizza/Italian food (Crosta and Mollica) which is a treat! They taste OK, but not great, which is why I call it 'lazy' for example if you want a good stir fry you velvet the chicken first but I don't do it when I'm busy.

I do have a nice feeling when I finish my batch prep for the week ahead. I guess it's similar to what you're saying. My house may be messy but at least we're eating healthily. A clean house as well would be the holy grail 😄

My mother (who also worked) told me women can choose between cooking and cleaning rarely both. I guess that's somewhat true. Laundry, replenishing consumables like soap etc is all DH we get cleaners every 2 weeks and in between leave it as it is....

@heyathere

For all her love for us, my own mother hasn't a single domestic bone in her body. She was a high flyer at work, but negligent and terrible and impatient in terms of running the household. She'd outsource every single thing. While we had many material and educational advantages, it wasn't a nice way for kids to grow up.

I understand feeling frustrated if you were living in a pigsty but if she outsourced it presumably it got done?

Why should it matter who did the work? It sounds as if your mum was solvent enough to pay someone to do it and self aware enough to understand that she was bad at it and hated it so paying someone else to do it was the best solution. What’s the problem?

Sadly, you're frothing at the mouth at the wrong person. It looks like you've gone off on a long rant without even bothering to read my comparatively shorter post.

I literally acknowledged that it would be unfair to hold her to outdated gender stereotypes: I'm sure there are men "made" for domestic work too... I don't begrudge her (maybe if she was born today, she would be child free, or have my dad help out way way more).

As for your World Book day, cleaning, cooking or whatever attempt at minimising what my siblings and I went through, I won't even entertain that. If we were poor, social services would have been called – that's how bad it often got at times.

Since you mention neurodiversity, I also suspect her neurodiversity (a great strength in her C-suite corporate career, though please do not go off on another rant as in no way am I making this a universal statement applicable to everyone - I am only referring to my mother's career) was why we often lived in such a "gilded shithole" as it were. If you want to minimise my experience, go ahead, but beware the arrogance of pretending you know anything about a stranger's entire life and childhood.

those days, weeks, months where everything in the house is ticking over nicely and everything is clean, tidy, well organised, pleasant and to my liking I do actually get real pleasure out of it as well as a sense of satisfaction and pride in it. When the house is warm and cosy, when we have tasty healthy, freshly made food, fresh bedding and nice things to do at home and so on I do think to myself, I did that, I made all this happen and I do enjoy it.

Of course you are not being unreasonable, not at all. Why would you not feel like that, and give yourself credit for a job well done?

I feel like that most days, and give myself loads of credit for 'adulting' when my mother often indicated that she doubted i would ever be up to it.

The joke is on her, I do vanishingly little of it myself, and since DH has not been well, he too is in no condition to contribute. What i do do, is arrange for housekeeping, cleaning, food delivery, laundry, gardening and all those little jobs to be covered efficiently and effectively. She would balk at what we spend on the different services, when it is entirely possible to do them myself.

I'm much happier and more content working, orchestrating and being immensely grateful for the life we have. I hope that you can work out why your SiL's unkind words are so resonating with you. Do whatever it takes to blow them away and have you go back o enjoying your life. All the best.

I must have touched a nerve there - you've misunderstood the tone of my post. I wasn't ranting or angry at all. Not sure why you took it that way, A post's length doesn't make it a rant.

If you had a terrible childhood such that it was a 'gilded shithole' that's another story and if my post rekindled old wounds I'm sorry, but this is a discussion on the value of domestic work. The way you put it, it just looked like she paid someone else to do it and you were unhappy with that.

Someone can have an immaculate home because they have a full-time housekeeper who makes sure that the kids are fed and clothed. But they can be be an abusive alcoholic, beat the kids, be cold and unfeeling. Equally, they can be domestic goddesses and keep everything running smoothly, BUT they can STILL be cold, unfeeling, abusive and controlling.

The two things - good housekeeping and good parenting - have nothing to do with each other. It looks like you have deeper issues and are taking it out on internet strangers.

What IS relevant, and what I presume @Thepeopleversuswork is alluding to is that there is still societal pressure on women to do it all and that was where I was also going. Again, share your experiences, I don't presume to know everything about you but that doesn't invalidate said societal pressure. If this discussion is too much for you probably best hide the thread and get on with your day.

@JaneIntheBox I'm neurodiverse too, I have dyspraxia and ADHD which I don't use medication for because I have another chronic health issue that the meds make worse. Routines and habits are the only things that work for me but I do get that everyone is different. I think its great that you enjoy the meals you make, home cooking is always lovely and literally the most important think I think.

Sounds like a match made in heaven!

Sure, you've misunderstood the tone of my post as well. Your implications about nerves, wounds, my deeper issues, and taking it out on Internet strangers are odd. I'm just as entitled to participate in the conversation as you are without being labelled as histrionic or spiteful.

You quoted my own post, explicitly stating your assumptions about World Book Day and whatnot. I assume in that case I'm free to respond; I was simply providing you with factual corrections.

By the way, you've still severely misunderstood the case study (of my own childhood) I've provided. I made no allusions to emotional warmth or lack thereof. My point wholly extends to practical domestic provision.

Again, my initial post didn't contradict your assertion: some people (men and women) are cut out for domestic work, and some aren't. In fact, in that post, I made the point that generational ideals expecting domesticity of women were/are a pity.

I also maintain that I don't think it's wrong to appreciate those who do thrive domestically just as much as those who thrive in corporate. Again, this includes men.

It's certainly an interesting concept.

We're discussing people 'thriving' in both spheres but are people really? Most just muddle along doing the best that they can, with an average job and average level of household maintenance.

Among women, and you see it a lot here, there's a lot of pressure to excel domestically. Any thread regarding food gets a load of people talking about UPF's, loads of household influencers with 'healthy meal' ideas etc etc. People being judged by the state of their house.
Corporate achievement isn't really valued on here, higher earning women are piled on and disbelieved.

Outside of MN however, in terms of what people 'need' to do to survive. Most households need two incomes in 2023, so both parents need to earn and fit whatever they can around it. I also notice that it depends on what each person values and the difficulty is really people agreeing with needs to be done when each person has different standards. If one person cooks healthy food, tidies etc but the other person doesn't actually care they're not going to 'appreciate' it, just say well I never asked you to do all that why show any appreciation?

You have said you'd appreciate both earning money and domestic work equally. Me? Not really. I value home cooking and a reasonable level of tidiness which we sort of manage now. If DH wanted to go PT but make the house spotless/gleaming I wouldn't be impressed. Maybe if he made good food but as DH hates cooking I'm not holding my breath.

Was your mum a single parent? If not then it is interesting that you are only talking about your mum's lack of domestic work if your dad was also the same or at least agreed to outsourcing it all.

I think that's what pp are talking about. Women are judged about domestic stuff far more than men.