To think this can be achieved in early years childcare?

[InThePurpleHaze]

Lots of proposals in place such as offering workers the chance to gain a qualification to level 3 standard by experience which can be done on the job, Removing ratios at certain quiet times and reducing the number of level 2 workers needed. I also think the government are hoping to increase pay for all workers.
Aibu to feel optimistic that these changes will make a positive difference?

Childcare providers are going bust left, right and centre. Where you do think increased pay is going to come from?

Increasing ratios means less staff. Not more money.

It's in the consultation that the hourly rate per child will be increased?

Or that the amount allocated to the childcare sector will increase? Because those aren't the sane thing!

They are asking us to more than double the amount if funded places from next year- of course the budget for that will increase!

That does not mean workers will be paid more, simply that parents will pay less.

The Government has no say whatsoever about how much childcare workers are paid. I don't know why Op is claiming they do.

Parents won't pay less, either. One way or another, they'll pay for increased shareholder profits. There will be less places available and parents will pay a premium for them, or be forced out of work.

I'm not sure how they are planning on doing it but I do think they will increase staff pay.

Are you a childcare worker?

Or parent?

Or civil servant?

Interested in where your inside knowledge is coming from.

Sound like dreadful ideas! Why do you think they are positive?!

I would think that’s almost certainly not going to happen!

Can you link to whatever it is that you’ve read?

Inpurplehaze, I don’t think you understand how ratios work. Nurseries already can have fewer staff onsite at the tail ends of the day when there are fewer children because the ratio is still maintained.

advanced qualifications are only valuable if they lead to additional pay or career advancement. Throwing a token qualification at a low wage worker is meaningless.

dd had a few nursery teachers who used working in a nursery as a way to help pay for university on their path to becoming teachers or going into child focused therapy or child focused medically adjacent therapies like speech or occupational therapy.

i do think there could be an advantage is making it easier for people interested in those fields to take part-time jobs in nurseries. Right now it tends to have to be work in the nursery to save up money and then quit to go to school.

Aren't many nurseries bound by the level 3 thing? As in you have to have one on each room with 50% level 2? So if that changes as in people can get experience based level 3 qualification or the number of level 2's needed are reduced then that will help nurseries survive.
I will try and find the link but someone from the early years association also thought it was positive.

I'm a childcare worker.
I am level 3 qualified with 15 years experience.

I get the same wage as someone unqualified straight in the door with 0 experience (assuming we are both in the same minimum wage age bracelet)
The only way I would get paid more is if I became a room leader, and then it's not even £1 an hour's difference.

I am expected to keep on top of child protection training, first aid, etc (no problem with this, its essential, but just highlighting the fact that our training doesn't stop at level 3. It's constant)

Expected to have the knowledge on how to best manage children with SEN, while having no formal training or external support.
Expected to work over ratio when staff are off sick etc.

Expected to complete up to 12 or more observations a day while also not taking any time or attention away from the children.

Expected to pull spare time out of my arse to do daily activities and the planning for these activities, again while still giving 100% of my focus to the children.

Expected to nurse numerous sick children almost every day, including those with stomach bugs, who won't be sent home because the parents will kick off. But if I catch the same bug I am forced to stay off for at least 48 hours and not get paid.

We are called fancy titles such as "early years educators" and yet are amongst the lowest paid sectors in the country.

High levels of stress, shit holiday entitlement, no sick pay, no praise or recognition for our work, 10 hour days.

The children are wonderful, the parents are lovely and the colleagues are amazing. They are not the cause of any of this.

The government don't give a shit about children, parents and definitely, definitely not childcare workers.

Nothing will change unless it is for their own benefit.

Would love to see that link as I haven’t seen any positivity about these changes from the childcare sector

What Early Years Association would that be, Op? I've looked at them all and there are no press releases.

There is a press release about the decline in childminders. Down to 27, 000 now. Despite all their rhetoric, this Government has presided over a shocking drop in numbers.
Not surprising when you hear about how they're being bullied out by Ofsted. I heard of another childminder left suicidal after an inspection just last month.

Absolutely terrible idea it will lower quality within the early years sector not increase the quality of early education, care our staff wellbeing!

The Government should be focusing on improving quality in early years and paying early years educators and early years teachers (teachers who are level 6 /degree level qualified in early years) in nurseries both the pay and respect they deserve! They won't because they couldn't care a less.

Retention and recruitment in early years is abysmal at the moment and it's because of the low pay, ever increasing demands by ofsted/ EYFS requirements and lack of respect for the job from a lot of managers /nursery owners and the perception of what the role entails by many of the general public who still see it as a role where early years educator's just play all day!

The two year old ratio increase is utter madness- fewer staff and more children . The 1:4 ratio with two year olds was difficult enough. The two year old children certainly do not benefit from increased numbers of children only the share holders /owners who are thinking of profit!

Level 3 should be the minimum level of qualification needed in early years. For one thing, it would stop the squabbles in some nurseries between experienced level 2 staff, who do not always like being supervised and told what to do by often less experienced, younger level 3 qualified staff. This can and does cause issues in early years. Qualified does not always mean better, but you do need to have a bench mark and that should be level 3 .

The nursery day and shift pattern are often long 10/11 hour days for minimum wage or not much above it for a huge amount of responsibility and ongoing CPD.

in what other career can you:

Not leave at your finish time of your own free will? Because your numbers of children have not dropped because they are late being picked up and you have to stay to maintain ratio .

Are expected to clean the room/ building at the end of the day? Either with children in the room, so you can't really keep a proper eye on the children or interact with them fully if you are cleaning and mopping. Or you are expected to do this after your shift, Many nurseries expect their staff to do this because they are too mean to pay for cleanerrs to come in and clean. This practice should be stopped by The Government!

Complete COD and staff meetings in your own time without being paid overtime? Again many nurseries do not pay overtime for staff meetings or training .

A typical daily/weekly occurrence for many early years workers. No wonder the sector is in its knees.

What The Government need to introduce in a national nursery/early years pay scale for the sector that reflects qualifications and experience until that happens though those Woking in the sector will continue to be screwed over in terms of pay and working conditions!

I can't remember what it was I read exactly but all the points I mentioned are being discussed as proposals.
I still think flexibility of reducing staff qualifications is good. I don't think someone has to be qualified to be a good practitioner.

don't think someone has to be qualified to be a good practitioner.-

Oh right. Does that apply to other jobs as well?

Not necessarily. But a lot of being good with kids comes down to personality. You can't teach patience and empathy for example.

Doctors, nurses and teachers all need patience and empathy. I prefer mine to be qualified.

don't think someone has to be qualified to be a good practitioner

Well, it's not like the job entails assessing children's milestones, evaluating stages of learning, addressing developmental concerns, daily written observations and carefully planned activities that are enriched with both learning opportunities and fun, being trained in child protection, first aid and Makaton, supporting children with SEN...

Nope, it's just changing nappies and singing nursery rhymes all day while cuddling babies.

Don't need any qualifications for that.

So anyone off the street who has a sunny disposition. Working with the most vulnerable people in society? They will need qualifications, even if piecemeal style for first aid, safeguarding, early learning.

and you think these unqualified people will be paid more?

What you have described in all your post as ‘positives’ just equal an unskilled workforce and a riskier, shitter environment for kids.

I really don’t know where you are getting your information from, but you are adding 1 and 3 together and getting potato.

don't think someone has to be qualified to be a good practitioner.
OP posts:
Would you say that about a doctor or a lawyer or any other professional?

It's all on Google in terms of the proposals. Not just making it up off the top of my head.

HOW do you know this please?

I hope if you need a medical procedure or need to take a flight somewhere you’ll be happy with an unqualified practitioner…..

Do you think all nursery workers need to do is be good with kids?
Have you seen the early years framework?
Do you think it's safe for people to look after children with no knowledge of first aid? Safeguarding? Child development?
Nurses and doctors need to be good with people but I wouldn't be happy being treated by someone who is not qualified no matter how friendly they are.
Don't you realise you are devaluing early years workers by saying they don't need to be qualified. And surely if the sector is going to become less professional then wages will go down not up

Honestly I have worked in nursery and been a childminder .

reducing ratios has nothing to do with better quality care, they claim it will reduce childcare bills . It doesn’t because the EY are struggling.

childcare pay will not increase - you repeating you think it will happen because it says so in a government paper is laughable - The only reason it will increase is if national minimum wage increases.

I also wonder what you understand about Early years . It isn’t baby sitting .