To thing school need to radically rethink their offer

[BlooDeBloop]

In lockdown everyone understood that schooling was optional. Everyone understood that missing a day or week didn't matter in the grand scheme of things

During lockdown students learned that rules could be arbitrary and not make sense

Lockdown taught parents that school was critical as childcare to enable them to work

Since then, kids are back in school. They are challenging the rules on an unprecedented scale. Parents are laughing at the SLT. Kids are cheering when they clowns are removed from class. The kids know there is no real punishment, no real consequence for deliberately, chronically disruptive behaviour.

Teachers are breaking down and leaving in droves, more than ever before. Leaving young, inexperienced colleagues in the trenches.

After having to educate their own children parents understand that Shakespeare, French, geography and more have no modern relevance in the UK. The curricula are unimaginative and disconnected from the future world of work. There is no longer home support for the suck it up attitude with which kids were once sent to school.

Once upon a time there was an understanding that the kids would go to school, get an education, leave to pursue training or higher education. Today, that understanding has broken down. Under the scrutiny and transparency that SM provides, we collectively understand this is not true. Schools are failing, not through lack of care or competency but a lack of relevance. Further, the social mores that governed acceptable behaviour have softened to such a degree a good 10% of every state secondary class will seek to destroy the locus of power in the room (teacher, SLT, whoever). To compound the issue, students are all seeing for themselves on SM how to disrupt and then go about emulating their heros.

This is a cluster fuck of gigantic proportions.

AIBU in thinking that there needs to be a big scale conversation (revolution!) around what schools offer in this new world? For starters, moving with the times to offer skills that are actually needed and valued in the workforce and in further ed (e.g. IT at all levels, from typing to programming, and not shoved into one hour a week). Real alternative curricula for non academic kids (let's not pretend these kids need Chaucer in their lives).

And when students are persistently disruptive over a long period of time, borderline encouraged by their parents, they should be sent home. Permanently. To be educated (or not) by their parents. That would sort out 90% of poor behaviour overnight.

Ahhhh. That feels better 😁. Thank you for reading if you got this far.

Any parent who thinks geography is useless should be prevented from having furhet children. 🤷 There are only so many people I could tolerate who think everything past Germany is Poland....

While 100%should not be the award worthy thing, school is important. They teach everything so everyone can find the interest they will follow.

Geography teacher then! I loved geography and the teachers who taught it - did it for A-level too. I'm 36 now and sometimes still remember stuff I was taught then, definitely one of the most relevant subjects in my opinion

Let's also not forget all the parents dealing with their darlings all they crying for schools. It's not just childcare. It's socialising, learning, learning respect and so on

Well OP, the real argument is why doesn't the parent of the class clown wring their neck rather than squander their and their classmates free education?

The issue is threefold:

Could the curriculum be made more relevant? Well, the DfE has many experts that should be critically assessing that continuously. However right now, we must accept that for the current cohort that's the fact.

SEND is a fucking scandal and everyone is being comprehensively fucked by lack of funding and attention.

Behaviour is off the scale, however I can tell you that's not entirely down to the schools but absolutely the attitude of the students and their feckless, inattentive and disengaged parents. Remember the fear you had with a shit report? Doesn't matter. Remember if a teacher pulled you up? No regard. Why? Because Parents have abdicated their accountability.

I could go on.

Shakespeare explores the human condition. How is that not relevant?

I've had kids who barely end up touching a grade, to kids who have gone on themselves to become English teachers, all find something to enjoy in Shakespeare.

Surely we've already got little enough general knowledge, culture, and shit languages skills in the UK, without making it even worse!!

Batshit!!

Got an email today that my dd8 teacher is leaving already, she had just joined.

I can’t tell whether you’re a teacher, parent or just an agitator. However I think you’re wrong in most of what you say and you seem like you’re trying to be clever or erudite but just end up confused and verbose.

I think you are giving too much credence to the minority whose parents have no interest in or respect for education.

These people were always among us.

However, punishments don't match the 'crimes'. These feral children and their feckless parents don't care anyway.

Also totally agree about Geography which is so rich now. So relevant in terms of ecology, global warming and ethical behaviour. Kids need to know how maps and science work to create GPS. They bloody well need to know how rivers function and capital cities.

It's not all about flying to bloody AI resorts and saying you know where you are on the planet.

They are challenging the rules on an unprecedented scale.

Good. Many school rules are pointless, like requiring kids to ask permission to remove blazers. Pointless rules should be challenged

Parents are laughing at the SLT.

Good. My primary school headteacher was physically abusive. Teaching attracts those who want to hurt children and wield power over them, as well as those who want to teach. Laughing at "little Hitlers" should be encouraged.

parents understand that Shakespeare, French, geography and more have no modern relevance in the UK

I worked in a university Geography department for a while. They researched the kind of landslides that wipe out whole villages and kill dozens of children in one tragic event. They researched the currents in the ocean and how they change with global warming. "No modern relevance" my arse. If you think Shakespeare is irrelevant, you didn't pay attention when watching the plays. Human nature never changes.

Once upon a time there was an understanding that the kids would go to school, get an education, leave to pursue training or higher education.

Only very recently. For most of the history of mass education, children left school straight into the workplace.

the social mores that governed acceptable behaviour have softened to such a degree a good 10% of every state secondary class will seek to destroy the locus of power in the room (teacher, SLT, whoever).

We should send these kids to Parliament and Whitehall because that's the locus of power that really needs destroying.

IT at all levels, from typing to programming, and not shoved into one hour a week

As I said upthread, match my current salary and we'll talk about me moving to teaching.

students are persistently disruptive over a long period of time, borderline encouraged by their parents

My reading of Marx enables some class analysis and my reading of Shakespeare lets me recognise hypocrisy and selfishness. You propose the creation of a feral underclass, a "lumpenproletariat", with people allocated into this group whilst they are still children. This underclass will contain a disproportionate number of SEND people, many of whom will be undiagnosed as children because of health service under-resourcing, but you don't care about that. This underclass will contain a disproportionate number of poor people, many of whom will have been excluded for uniform policy infractions, but you don't care about that either. Threats of being allocated to this subclass will be used by "little Hitler" abuser-teachers to exert more undeserved and harmful control over children, to get away with sexual abuse and other serious harms, but you don't care about that. Abusive parents who are kept in check by the fear of teachers spotting and reporting signs of abuse will welcome this exclusion, but you don't care about that.

As long as your precious little angels have a quiet time in class, you don't care about the harm to other children caused by school exclusions.

No I'm not @letthemalldoone the reality is that that is not the minority anymore.

"AIBU in thinking that there needs to be a big scale conversation (revolution!) around what schools offer in this new world? For starters, moving with the times to offer skills that are actually needed and valued in the workforce and in further ed (e.g. IT at all levels, from typing to programming, and not shoved into one hour a week)."

Have you actually ever observed how quickly kids use their screens? I did RSA III typing when God was a little boy and there is no way I could keep up with them!!

You're overstating things.

You can change the curriculum all you want too. You will always, always have children, and parents, who won't engage.

I think that our curriculum is constricted but I certainly wouldn't dismiss geography, however, I'd like geography to include regions other than India or North Africa which get regurgitated every year ad finitum.

No one learns about South America, Australasia , Europe or Scandinavia , certainly not in Primary.

Good. My primary school headteacher was physically abusive. Teaching attracts those who want to hurt children and wield power over them, as well as those who want to teach. Laughing at "little Hitlers" should be encouraged.

If you really, actually believe what you just typed, then you are beyond help.

So was my primary school headteacher but that was in the 60s/70s fgs.

It's disgraceful to encourage children to laugh at their teachers, and as for describing them as "little Hitlers" - just wow! Have you the foggiest notion of how offensive that is???

Chaucer, on the primary curriculum? Are you out of your mind? The Miller's Tale is not for small children!

These thoughts have been bouncing around for decades, they're not new to the pandemic. In the 70s they reacted to it by introducing 'comprehensive' education that threw away grammar and spelling, traditional geography and history, along with prizes for winners at sports day.

Overall - according to data gathered since the mid-40s - maths (essential for programming) and literacy took a nose dive. It's argued that many underpinning skills also deteriorated; things like reasoning, concentration, dilligence and behaviour.

Maybe it could be argued that lower achievers were protected, but it wasn't an environment that encouraged excellence. Countries that held on to their traditional approach started to overtake and dominate in both academia and industry. While people still flock to UK universities, its often for visa reasons, or to obtain a qualification that's recognised in the West. Their tutors are often from overseas too.

I'm not saying that things shouldn't change to reflect the times, but we can't just throw out things that are unpopular or difficult.

Bad behaviour is a much bigger discussion that doesn't belong on this particular thread.

Forgive any spag errors in my post, I was educated in the 70s.

The curriculum is, in many ways, in need of updating, yes.

I am still teaching about the way hydrogen fuel cars work when it appears that we are going full-on electric instead. Or the very basics of early transplants in an age where 3D printed organs are slowly becoming a thing. Or the inner workings of nuclear power stations in an age where so many are decommissioned and we should be teaching how solar panels work.

I try to include what I can to make things relevant, e.g. bring in an (adapted - my details scrubbed out!) energy bill and go over far more than the kids need to pass their GCSEs, e.g. the concept of what a standing charge is, but there is only so much I can do when so much of what I teach will not help the kids in later life.

Class sizes are the major issue, I find. I can cope well with all kinds of needs in my classroom if I have a bottom set of 7-10 kids, but my current bottom set of over 20 is just too large to even begin to cope and so everyone gets a shitty deal.

I'm not sure the answer is that schools are failing as such, but the one-size-fits-all approach we currently have, with too few staff and rooms for too many students certainly doesn't do anyone any favours.

I seriously doubt anyone is trying to teach Chaucer to a child who is unable to read or write.... dear god!!

I find it interesting there is the most outrage over my comments about Shakespeare and French.

I remember doing Shakespeare for GCSE. My DC did his first play in Y7! This is a mixed ability class. Some kids are SEN. Some are struggling to write paragraphs. I just don't think this is appropriate and more importantly motivating at this age. My very bookish, articulate DC who wants to be an author now hates his English class with a passion. This is very upsetting. We're living through a golden age in literature! Why can't teachers motivate and inspire with fantastic books?

French has always had more issues with behaviour than most subjects which I believe is why they made it optional post 15. I pity the teachers! French is great for those with enthusiasm. But is it worth teaching to those with literacy issues? Do we listen to what a section of children are saying with their behaviour?

Geography is an unpopular career path. I don't know why, I loved it and did well. But I believe it is in decline with a trend of uni departments closing. I know specialist teacher recruitment is dire.

To be clear, I'm not advocating just teaching IT and maths, far from it. The UK has great creative industries and this should definitely 100% be brought into schools. I'm asking for more imagination about what we deliver to our kids. And maybe listen to what the behaviour is telling us.

I know many who have left teaching in the last few years and many more who plan to leave asap. I am planning to leave too.

Funnily enough, I think things will come back to hydrogen. Even Elon has admitted that hydrogen is likely to be the final solution to clean energy.

I think there should be more power to remove disruptive children from classroom. A whole cohort can miss large chunks of learning from consistently disrupted classes. My daughter is quiet and does her best (going by what I hear from her and the teachers) but her enthusiasm is greatly reduced in subjects that have difficult children in the group. Some of them are subjects she would really enjoy if the teacher could just get on with teaching rather than behaviour management.

Mainstream learning isn't right for some children for a whole host of reasons and these needs need addressing and good quality alternative provision available and I don't just mean for severe SEN needs but for those who need to move more or learn by doing rather than reading etc.