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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To thing school need to radically rethink their offer

426 replies

BlooDeBloop · 21/09/2023 19:16

In lockdown everyone understood that schooling was optional. Everyone understood that missing a day or week didn't matter in the grand scheme of things

During lockdown students learned that rules could be arbitrary and not make sense

Lockdown taught parents that school was critical as childcare to enable them to work

Since then, kids are back in school. They are challenging the rules on an unprecedented scale. Parents are laughing at the SLT. Kids are cheering when they clowns are removed from class. The kids know there is no real punishment, no real consequence for deliberately, chronically disruptive behaviour.

Teachers are breaking down and leaving in droves, more than ever before. Leaving young, inexperienced colleagues in the trenches.

After having to educate their own children parents understand that Shakespeare, French, geography and more have no modern relevance in the UK. The curricula are unimaginative and disconnected from the future world of work. There is no longer home support for the suck it up attitude with which kids were once sent to school.

Once upon a time there was an understanding that the kids would go to school, get an education, leave to pursue training or higher education. Today, that understanding has broken down. Under the scrutiny and transparency that SM provides, we collectively understand this is not true. Schools are failing, not through lack of care or competency but a lack of relevance. Further, the social mores that governed acceptable behaviour have softened to such a degree a good 10% of every state secondary class will seek to destroy the locus of power in the room (teacher, SLT, whoever). To compound the issue, students are all seeing for themselves on SM how to disrupt and then go about emulating their heros.

This is a cluster fuck of gigantic proportions.

AIBU in thinking that there needs to be a big scale conversation (revolution!) around what schools offer in this new world? For starters, moving with the times to offer skills that are actually needed and valued in the workforce and in further ed (e.g. IT at all levels, from typing to programming, and not shoved into one hour a week). Real alternative curricula for non academic kids (let's not pretend these kids need Chaucer in their lives).

And when students are persistently disruptive over a long period of time, borderline encouraged by their parents, they should be sent home. Permanently. To be educated (or not) by their parents. That would sort out 90% of poor behaviour overnight.

Ahhhh. That feels better 😁. Thank you for reading if you got this far.

OP posts:
haXXor · 21/09/2023 20:34

TheCurtainQueen · 21/09/2023 19:24

I agree we need to focus more on skills for the modern workplace - and this is largely computer science. However, we hardly have any teachers capable of teaching it.

When teacher salaries match my current salary, I'll consider moving over. There needs to be a recognition that some skills are more lucrative than others, and so some subject teachers are going to have to be paid more than others to lure them out of industry and the HE sector.

mondaytosunday · 21/09/2023 20:34

Don't recognise this at all.

pleasehelpwi3 · 21/09/2023 20:35

Behaviour of both kids and parents is worse than prior to covid, but I don't recognise with the picture you paint in my classroom or school.

nopuppiesallowed · 21/09/2023 20:36

Ah. A Daily Mail journalist was having a quiet day and thought she/ he would stir up the Mumsnetters 😂

WelcomeToLagos · 21/09/2023 20:37

After having to educate their own children parents understand that Shakespeare, French, geography and more have no modern relevance in the UK.

The UK needs fewer philistines, not more.

EuterpeMelpomeneEratoEtc · 21/09/2023 20:41

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

Vitriolinsanity · 21/09/2023 20:43

I write convincing, argued reports every single day and my ability to do so is grounded in my education and knowledge of English and English literature. With Chaucer and Shakespeare the lesson is to read between the lines.

I can read, research, consider and convince because I write cohesively and in a way that brings critical reasoning. Lessons I learned in History and RS.

I can back up my statements with numerical data because of what I learned in maths.

When I present I still hear my English teacher teaching diction and cadence. It also is invaluable in pacing my speech in an argumentative situation.

I didn't learn IT skills at school, but I'm considered a go to person because I'm confident in my ability, have an enquiring mind and the knowledge to learn new skills.

I enjoy travel as an essential means of well-being and continuous education because I enjoyed languages and the peripheral insight they gave to new cultures.

That's what I learned at school. It's not all ticking boxes.

I am an HR Director.

Globules · 21/09/2023 20:43

SchoolAdminNeverGoodEnough · 21/09/2023 19:23

when students are persistently disruptive over a long period of time, borderline encouraged by their parents, they should be sent home. Permanently. To be educated (or not) by their parents. That would sort out 90% of poor behaviour overnight.

And those kids, who are acting out more than likely because of their home life/parenting, get the one lifeline thrown to them snatched away.
Fucking hell shall we throw them down the mines with a canary whilst we are at it?

This was the part I picked up from the OP too.

Only on MN does the thread take the direction of SEND funding and curriculum, as it's all about me and my DC, and largely ignore the absolute crisis excluding disruptive pupils would cause society in the short and long term.

Spirallingdownwards · 21/09/2023 20:43

Raincloudsonasunnyday · 21/09/2023 19:40

The OP is evidence, should any more be required, that it's the parents who are the problem in the main.

This ^

RebelHarry · 21/09/2023 20:43

Youspoilus · 21/09/2023 19:26

Further, the social mores that governed acceptable behaviour have softened to such a degree a good 10% of every state secondary class will seek to destroy the locus of power in the room (teacher, SLT, whoever)

op you just do not sound all that intelligent

Pot and kettle?

Original poster
BlooDeBloop · 21/09/2023 20:44

CapEBarra · 21/09/2023 20:25

The hyperbole at the beginning of the original post was unnecessary, but I completely agree that the education system is not fit for purpose. It’s a 19th century curriculum trying to address 21st century problems. The challenge is determining what is critical and what is optional. I’d argue that coding and finance (including personal finance) should take precedence over something like English literature. Certainly a GCSE in IT should be core and English lit an option, rather than the other way round as it is now.

Agree about the hyperbole. Sorry. It's been building in me for some time.

I think posters would be surprised if they knew my background. But of relevance:

I taught many years ago
I follow a FB forum for teachers exiting the profession
I spoke at length to a head teacher of an inner city school
My friend does supply teaching across the region
I have a y8 student with special needs whose school was excellent until the last Ofsted
I speak to many parents who are far more disaffected than me
I move heavily in home ed circles ie the students the system have spat out

I think Gove did untold damage to the NC and sucked all life and interest out of English.

I think tiktok has a lot to answer for.

Erm.. I'm sure there's more 😅

OP posts:
DisquietintheRanks · 21/09/2023 20:44

Sometimes I think I must inhabit a parallel universe. Lockdown taught my kids to appreciate school. It taught them that it's much easier to be taught than teach yourself. It made me appreciate school as a place of education even more than I already did, childcare has nothing to do with it. Because they missed so much school, I'm really keen that they don't miss any more.

So yeah, I think YABU.

Glorifried · 21/09/2023 20:46

I wish you'd enabled voting.

From the bottom of my heart, working in a school and with kids at school and university, YABtotallyU.

Quercus30 · 21/09/2023 20:46

The primary school curriculum is not fit for purpose.

Starchipenterprise · 21/09/2023 20:49

Probably best if edit your title to better reflect what your post is about!

Iateallthechocolate · 21/09/2023 20:50

I was barely taught geography in the 80s. I knew 3 countries and their exports and a bit of social structure. We had no maps!!

Once I'd left school I then had to learn the shapes of each country and where they were. Believe me geography does matter ( unless you want to be one of those people who goes on holiday abroad having no idea where in the world you are)

Original poster
BlooDeBloop · 21/09/2023 20:53

Globules · 21/09/2023 20:43

This was the part I picked up from the OP too.

Only on MN does the thread take the direction of SEND funding and curriculum, as it's all about me and my DC, and largely ignore the absolute crisis excluding disruptive pupils would cause society in the short and long term.

Show quote history

The mood I'm in if I cornered a parent of the (one of many) the class clown I might wring their neck. I would certainly give them an earful about how their son is destroying all the learning and fun in class, but they would probably laugh back in my face like they did to the head last year. I'm sorry but it is so selfish to destroy this for the kids and the teachers. The teachers I know go into teaching for all the right reasons. It's heartbreaking to see how quickly they are destroyed.

I realise this might not resonate with everyone on here. Maybe you're lucky the local secondary is fine. I don't live in a bad area. But it feels like the kids have got the run of the school and there are no consequences.

OP posts:
MatthewsMumFromTikTok · 21/09/2023 20:56

Tik tok?why is tik tok to blame??

Caththegreat · 21/09/2023 20:59

Why isn't French relevsnt? and if u think all jobs will be in tech you are not reading the world right.AI will take more jobs.we need the beauty of language and Shakespeare to keep us human

SleepingStandingUp · 21/09/2023 21:01

So the disruptive kids are excluded permanently and abandoned to disinterested parents who may themselves have a poor education so will lack the capacity or time to educate them further. How is that making them into useful little worker bees? Surely you're just further disenchanting the next generation

And wtf has geography done to anyone? Since when do we not need to learn about the world? To understand about the natural world we're meant to protect? Agree French is a random choice really, but why pick on that not German or Spanish or Italian?

And why shouldn't poor kids enjoy Shakespeare and Chaucer?

Maatandosiris · 21/09/2023 21:02

It’s not the curriculum that’s the problem. It’s society. Humans haven’t changed that much, the narrative around life has.

What needs to change in school is it needs to keep politics out of the classroom. Schools should teach traditional subjects, critical thinking skill. Learning poetry is as important and relevant to life as science, geography and history are fundamental to human existence. Maybe it’s the way these things are taught, they are taught with agendas that aren’t relevant to the majority of students - take politics out of the classroom.

Society needs to reassess how it treats children. It needs to reassess how work is balanced with bringing up a child.

Teaching should be left to teachers, not educators who sit in offices designing politically and ideologically motivated curriculums.

DanceMumTaxi · 21/09/2023 21:03

Wow, so many inaccurate statements I don’t know where to start. You’re certainly not describing the school I work in or the lessons I’m teaching. I’m currently teaching topics on climate change/sustainability, deforestation, coastal environments and flooding. All geography and all very relevant to modern UK society and global issues generally. Geography has moved on a lot since I as at school. Our curriculum is designed to help young people become well-rounded individuals who understand the world they’re living in.

Lorieandrews · 21/09/2023 21:04

BlooDeBloop · 21/09/2023 19:16

In lockdown everyone understood that schooling was optional. Everyone understood that missing a day or week didn't matter in the grand scheme of things

During lockdown students learned that rules could be arbitrary and not make sense

Lockdown taught parents that school was critical as childcare to enable them to work

Since then, kids are back in school. They are challenging the rules on an unprecedented scale. Parents are laughing at the SLT. Kids are cheering when they clowns are removed from class. The kids know there is no real punishment, no real consequence for deliberately, chronically disruptive behaviour.

Teachers are breaking down and leaving in droves, more than ever before. Leaving young, inexperienced colleagues in the trenches.

After having to educate their own children parents understand that Shakespeare, French, geography and more have no modern relevance in the UK. The curricula are unimaginative and disconnected from the future world of work. There is no longer home support for the suck it up attitude with which kids were once sent to school.

Once upon a time there was an understanding that the kids would go to school, get an education, leave to pursue training or higher education. Today, that understanding has broken down. Under the scrutiny and transparency that SM provides, we collectively understand this is not true. Schools are failing, not through lack of care or competency but a lack of relevance. Further, the social mores that governed acceptable behaviour have softened to such a degree a good 10% of every state secondary class will seek to destroy the locus of power in the room (teacher, SLT, whoever). To compound the issue, students are all seeing for themselves on SM how to disrupt and then go about emulating their heros.

This is a cluster fuck of gigantic proportions.

AIBU in thinking that there needs to be a big scale conversation (revolution!) around what schools offer in this new world? For starters, moving with the times to offer skills that are actually needed and valued in the workforce and in further ed (e.g. IT at all levels, from typing to programming, and not shoved into one hour a week). Real alternative curricula for non academic kids (let's not pretend these kids need Chaucer in their lives).

And when students are persistently disruptive over a long period of time, borderline encouraged by their parents, they should be sent home. Permanently. To be educated (or not) by their parents. That would sort out 90% of poor behaviour overnight.

Ahhhh. That feels better 😁. Thank you for reading if you got this far.

I agree. I took my kids out of school and home educate nowadays. Best decision we’ve ever made. We can teach what we want and still take GCSEs. It’s a win win. We get rid of all that fluff in the middle

fortheloveofjamdoughnuts · 21/09/2023 21:06

Pinkglobelamp · 21/09/2023 19:22

Chaucer is a bit annoying, agreed, though useful for discussions around gender essentialism, sexism and misogyny. Probably better on the primary curriculum rather than secondary, or for 11-12 year olds maybe?

I don't know who Chaucer is 🤣

Quercus30 · 21/09/2023 21:06

Alot of the issue is for some subjects, you have to cover so much content, there isn't the time or the resources to do it in any meaningful way. You end up under so much pressure to get through it all and some children really struggle, others get fed up. Then there's all the insistence on masses of homework, most of which is just set because we are told we have to rather than it being for any real purpose. Kids don't get enough down time. And when they do they choose to spend it glued to SM rather than doing anything fun or active. I'm sure lots of parents on here will argue and say their children do this that and the other, but there are so many young people who don't.