To thing school need to radically rethink their offer

[BlooDeBloop]

In lockdown everyone understood that schooling was optional. Everyone understood that missing a day or week didn't matter in the grand scheme of things

During lockdown students learned that rules could be arbitrary and not make sense

Lockdown taught parents that school was critical as childcare to enable them to work

Since then, kids are back in school. They are challenging the rules on an unprecedented scale. Parents are laughing at the SLT. Kids are cheering when they clowns are removed from class. The kids know there is no real punishment, no real consequence for deliberately, chronically disruptive behaviour.

Teachers are breaking down and leaving in droves, more than ever before. Leaving young, inexperienced colleagues in the trenches.

After having to educate their own children parents understand that Shakespeare, French, geography and more have no modern relevance in the UK. The curricula are unimaginative and disconnected from the future world of work. There is no longer home support for the suck it up attitude with which kids were once sent to school.

Once upon a time there was an understanding that the kids would go to school, get an education, leave to pursue training or higher education. Today, that understanding has broken down. Under the scrutiny and transparency that SM provides, we collectively understand this is not true. Schools are failing, not through lack of care or competency but a lack of relevance. Further, the social mores that governed acceptable behaviour have softened to such a degree a good 10% of every state secondary class will seek to destroy the locus of power in the room (teacher, SLT, whoever). To compound the issue, students are all seeing for themselves on SM how to disrupt and then go about emulating their heros.

This is a cluster fuck of gigantic proportions.

AIBU in thinking that there needs to be a big scale conversation (revolution!) around what schools offer in this new world? For starters, moving with the times to offer skills that are actually needed and valued in the workforce and in further ed (e.g. IT at all levels, from typing to programming, and not shoved into one hour a week). Real alternative curricula for non academic kids (let's not pretend these kids need Chaucer in their lives).

And when students are persistently disruptive over a long period of time, borderline encouraged by their parents, they should be sent home. Permanently. To be educated (or not) by their parents. That would sort out 90% of poor behaviour overnight.

Ahhhh. That feels better 😁. Thank you for reading if you got this far.

Er, I was trying to be nice by not spelling this out but you said:

'The main principle of Finish education is respectful attitude and no punishments.'

You were wrong. And I know you got that quote from the first thing that came up on google. Don't try shifting the goalposts.

Grade 5 GCSE is a very basic level - it should be achievable for most.

I'm afraid that's just not true. Grade 5 may be a very basic level to you. There are lots of kids who are not capable of getting a 5 in maths, even with lots of help.

Are you ok? Why the excessive aggression?

You seem to be thinking along the lines of, if some students can’t do a subject then no one should. Isn’t that taking the lowest common denominator. I taught in secondary schools.

Of course not, just ignore.

No such thing as a civilised debate on this thread - and you wonder why so many of these kids are aggressive and badly behaved?🤔I don't know what you guys are on or what your agenda is but I'll leave you to your echo chamber.

For many kids in dysfunctional and abusive homes school is the only normal - it offers structure and routine - which they often struggle to adapt to without support, as well as stable adults modelling behaviour that teacher them.

Often students only hot meal of the day is in school

Add to that that we know pupil absence is often a feature when abuse it happening (masking bruising etc) then we NEED vulnerable students IN SCHOOL - for their mental health and wellbeing as well as to have proper safeguarding in place.

Kicking them back to homes where they are not loved/cared for or shown proper routine and behaviour will not help them or society

I have a horrible feeling the OP probably thinks that ‘learning a foreign language is useless because everyone speaks English’

More like the reality that learning German is useless if you never go to Germany, or French if you never go to France. It's obviously pretty essential if you want to live or work abroad, but pretty useless to just learn a random language but never actually get to use it because you never go to a country speaking that language.

Yes, there are benefits in understanding differences such as male/female words, different sentence structure, etc., which would help you learn a specific relevant language if and when you need to, but that's pretty easy to do, even if you weren't taught at school.

It seems that schools choose what languages to teach based on teacher availability rather than which language may actually be most useful for the average pupil!

But the beautiful irony is that she has been a translator in the past (albeit gave it up after a few months along with all her other jobs!)

You joined mumsnet just to post on this thread in support of the OP so we all know that….

and the overwhelming majority all agree with one another that the OP’s thread is daft. Not a few posters. Dozens and dozens. And it does t occur to you that perhaps you don’t think it’s a “civilised” debate because you being the OP simply don’t like to be told that your OP is nonsense to the overwhelming majority of us 🤷‍♀️

After having to educate their own children parents understand that Shakespeare, French, geography and more have no modern relevance in the UK.

Shakespeare - British values, language development, exposing children to different materials, inferring meaning through sometimes hard to understand language.
Geography - Understanding what’s happening to the world and therefore getting a glimpse into their future (climate change ect), knowing about different cultures around the world, appreciating other cultures
French - Communication, not having the ignorance that others should learn English, again understanding other cultures, stimulating different parts of your brain

maybe subjects could be streamlined , maybe more practical aspects could be added (eg proofreading/copywriting in English or cross curricular links) but I definitely think these things offer value even if it’s not obvious what that is.

I think it's quite obvious that if the modern world doesn't make use of Shakespeare, geography or French then the modern world needs to change, pronto, so that it values these things appropriately, rather than we stop teaching subjects of immense value.

So, don’t learn a language if you’re not planning on visiting or working there - British exceptionalism at its best

Unfortunately, there are many parents like the OP, and this is why I am seeking an exit plan from teaching.

I wish I could say OP's attitude is rare, but I receive regular communication from multiple parents who hold the same ignorant, misguided viewpoint, and who freely share this nonsense with their children, contributing to the disrespect and entitlement in the classroom. OP might be pleased that her children aren't actively disruptive, yet her attitude has caused them a different kind of harm.

I truly pity the children whose parents are like OP. She has made their world so limited and small.

Some people think that some subjects on the national curriculum should be squeezed out. I'd like to promote Religious Studies. Going round the National Gallery reminds me that if you have no idea of what's in the bible, it would be next to impossible to understand a huge number of the wonderful paintings in there!

Both my daughters went to a private girls school. Part of the acceptance criteria was to sign a contract of conduct by both parents and pupil. If you were disruptive, disobedient or disrespectful you were out. Gone. Your parents would be called and security would escort you off the premises and out of the school grounds.

There were no exceptions.

Consequently there were no disciplinary problems, at all , ever. That meant the teachers could get on with teaching which very much included Shakespeare, French and Geography.

The school day was 8:30 - 5:15. Standards were high and expectations set accordingly.

Most world learns languages because the world is connected now. International companies, tourism, online boards, etc.
Quite frankly, the "don't learn it if you don't want to go work there" would be disastrous for Brits and Americans because majority of people learning English do not plan on going to work there. If they all drop it... Good luck

It's not the subject that's the problem. Educators all agree that children need the opportunity to study a variety of subjects. What many teachers have an issue with is how the curriculum is so prescriptive in how and what we teach within a specific subject. It can be really frustrating when you know the children in your class would really benefit from studying a different aspect of a subject that may be more accessible, relevant or of interest to them, or you have a particular interest and knowledge in something yourself as a teacher but aren't able to teach it. One size all prescriptive script style schemes in primary are really common. And not always right for the children you have in front of you.

As someone who speaks five languages and loves language learning, I totally understand the OP. Why are people twisting it in such a silly way?

As an aside, I did also learn French in school. My only unsuccessful language. Non fluent teachers found, poor behaviour and generally poorly taught. I can barely say a sentence. There needs to be some smarter choices made