To ask for a head count as to how many mumsnetters don’t believe that climate change is caused by human activity?

[workingtowards]

There was a thread on MN many years ago, when a good proportion thought climate change was just weather/natural, so it would be interesting to know if views have changed.

YANBU: Yes human activity is causing climate change
YABU: No climate change is natural and there’s nothing we can do about it

And just as vegans and vegetarians help mitigate the effects of meat eating on the planet, those of us who do more will mitigate the effects of those who do less.
The Chinese are increasing their meat and milk production at a prodigious rate
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aar8534

We had a 150yr head start, so of course we’d be punching above our weight for cumulative CO2 emissions dating from 1750.

I believe it is mainly caused by human activity. However, I also think that we fail to assess the issue as we do all other issues. That is, weighing up the pros and cons. The fact is, there are many, many more human deaths caused by cold weather, so an overall warming of the planet will actually increase human mortality rather than decrease it.
Also, cheap energy such as that taken from fossil fuels has done more good than harm. Cheap fuel resources have lifted millions of people out of poverty, and brought huge wealth to developing countries.
I also find it curious how people who are staunchly against the use of fossil fuels tend to be anti-capitalist, so it's uncleear how much of it is informed by science and how much is political. Ie. Seeing human consumption and innovation as inherently bad, and fossil fuels being a convenient mask for their hatred of humans in general.

YANBU.

*Have you done many things such as stop flying, upgrade to heat pump, no car or EV etc

Not calling you out but you obviously care. Does it translate to your life as well? What type of stuff have you embraced @EasternStandard.

Reduced consumption mainly. I haven't been buying clothes this year, I cook from scratch mostly, I'm aware of air miles, I recycle, I don't buy plastic bottles ever, I buy a takeaway coffee rarely. I bought reusable period pads, I don't fly, we're down to one car, and it's a little one, we moved to somewhere I can walk everywhere including to work, I work from home a lot, I'm a vegetarian trying to go vegan. The kids wear each other's hand me downs as much as possible.

We went non open plan to create a snug we can heat and insulate easier than a big open plan barn. We don't have gas. We don't have a log burner, We don't have central heating at the moment.

The extra we're paying on our mortgage every month (Thanks Tories!) has taken away our budget to save for an EV, heating, and a grey water system for our baths and showers to flush the loo, but we'll get there.

I support businesses and politicians who help us get to Net Zero and minimise my interaction with those who don't.

I use my local farm shop and my fill your own container shop.

I try and do my bit basically.

I've got probably 40-50 more years in whatever hellscape we create and my kids could have 90 or more.

So I learn the facts and I do my bit.

@IslaWinds During the colonial years when we were "the workshop of the world" that China is now we outsourced a lot of our emissions to other territories so our total responsibility is even bigger than calculated.

And so is our obligation to take responsibility for it.

We are taking responsibility….how can you even say we are not?!

Im a bit confused, you are saying that anything we import and consume we are responsible for, not the country that manufactured it and sold it to us. (Which I agree with)

But now you are saying everything we manufactured when we were the “workshop of the world” and then sold all around the world for other countries to consume we are also responsible for?

That seems a double standard.

Broadly agree apart from the comment climate change is caused mostly by humans.
Massive climate changes over 4,5 billion years on this planet. Humans not around for most of it.
No one has a clear understanding of the impacts on climate of e.g. sunspots, the earths's 'wobble', deep sea tranches, volcanoes, ash clouds and on and on.
Scientists are too scared to own up to this as the 'scientific' community has largely become a 1984 state - if you disagree/challenge you're cancelled.
Climate change will continue for billions of years after humans are extinct - likely causes; pandemic, asteroid and of course nuclear war.
Having hotter summers big danger - nah not really.
Chill out and get a tan. Much better than gluing yourself to a road!!

Excellent post, @Hurrydash, especially about the infinitesimal time mankind's been here and the assumptions that we know it all

For me this is where the arrogance comes in, as if we're the only thing that's mattered to the planet or ever will. I wouldn't mind, but when you dig into things so much is done on "modelling" - in other words largely guesses, except such comments aren't always welcome because of what you accurately described as the 1984 thing

The ice core samples from East Antarctica provide us with a record of CO2 levels in the atmosphere over the past 800,000 years compared to the present day.

It is not clear from the text what the red line on the graph shows.
If it is temperature let's all breath a sigh of relief the temperature now is lower than many spikes over the last 800,000 years.
Either way if the world's age was a 24 hour clock 800,000 years is about 15 seconds - if my maths hasn't failed me!

• We are taking responsibility….how can you even say we are not?!

Im a bit confused, you are saying that anything we import and consume we are responsible for, not the country that manufactured it and sold it to us. (Which I agree with)

But now you are saying everything we manufactured when we were the “workshop of the world” and then sold all around the world for other countries to consume we are also responsible for?

That seems a double standard.*

I don't think the UK's colonial emissions (when the U.K. created emissions in other countries for the UK's benefit) are even counted @IslaWinds so as for taking responsibility for them...

Emissions are counted from 1750.

Emissions are counted from 1750.

As far as I know @IslaWinds emissions that the U.K. is responsible for through their actions in other countries due to colonialism are not counted in our total.

Posting on this phone (or other device) as we all are, probably not struggling with hand washing all clothes, maybe the dishwasher is on, some have cars and holidays and all hot water

It feels easy to say emissions for advancement are bad but I don’t think many would swap lives with those without the end results

Voted YABU - but it’s a mix of both.

@hurrydash yes - the red line is temperature. You will notice that for the last 800,00 years they have been closely correlated. There is now an aberrational increase in CO2. If the temperature doesn’t change similarly in the near future, it will be the first time in at least 800,000 years. But hey ho, I like your optimism.



Hopefully this will cheer you up!!!





Sorry can't post a graph as rubbish with IT.

But I'm sure it would have made you feel better😀

@Hurrydash was it this? 🤣

@workingtowards

It's not a difficult concept.

There used to be no oxygen on the planet. Oxygen formed due to photosynthesis starting, and eventually the atmosphere was able to support human life.

Carbon dioxide acts as a greenhouse as it absorbs heat emitted from earth then gives it out in all directions, including back down. Oxygen and nitrogen don't do this.

And you cannot deny that humans are currently producing HUGE amounts of carbon dioxide (electricity demands, fuel demands, industry etc...) as well as cutting down rainforests that produce Oxygen.

Yes there are other factors but humans are absolutely contributing to climate change. You'd have to be rather dim not to understand that.

but its only a small percentage