to take dog into supermarket

[amechange]

I can't get supermarket deliveries. I am autistic, I am disabled because of it, and stress/anxiety causes me to do self destructive stims and behaviours, brings on disassociation, paranoia, sleep issues, suicidal ideation etc and I have agoraphobia as well. I have only ever been a few minutes away from home up till today when I pushed myself to go to the supermarket, I didn't go in. If I couldn't take my dog, I wouldn't have left the house. She is a tiny chihuahua. She is well behaved, she understands commands, but she isn't registered as anything, but she pretty much is a service dog. Even though she wasnt specifically trained to do a specific task to calm my anxiety down, having her there with me reduces my anxiety a lot compared to if I didn't have her. And at home when I feel anxious, she comes and sits by me/lets me hold her. I'm now in a position where I have to go in there to do my weekly shopping. She has a dog pram that closes all around, it was expensive and looks like a babies pram but isn't, its the ibiyaya retro luxe pram. She wouldn't be a danger to anyone/bother anyone/contaminate anything/get in the way, no one will notice it's a dog, I wont be showing her off/taking her out to show people if I took her in.

@Litmus1001 Well, she is small enough that she can sit in one arm easily – so I have another arm free to do shopping, so yes, if you're allowed into a supermarket carrying your dog then her weight is definitely relevant 😂Also, even if she was left outside the supermarket, I would still be picking up food (that would be going in my basket, and no one else's) with hands that had touched my dog. I'm pretty sure people are going into supermarkets with far dirtier hands than mine! And, as in my previous post, most supermarkets are not dog friendly – just use those? That's why I don't see it as being an issue. In the same way, I will tend to avoid overtly family friendly restaurants as I like to have a bit of peace and quiet when dining out. I don't go around demanding that children not be allowed in any restaurants! That would be ridiculous as obviously some people want to eat out with children and it suits them to do so.

The minute you compare dogs to children then the argument is lost. Non-service dogs do not need to be in supermarkets, no matter how much you think you can justify it.

That's not an argument for allowing dogs though, just an aside.

Supermarket worker here, at my store we often help people with additional needs and I've frequently been given shopping lists from people who otherwise couldn't do it themselves.

Could you give the supermarket a call, explain your situation and maybe go along and hand a list over at the doors? A bit like click and collect but more personal, it'll push you to interact but in a gentle way. That way you can take your dog but wait outside. A supermarket is a strange place for a dog so although you say yours is well trained, with music, crowds, alarms, back shutters getting opened, pallet moving, noisy cages etc it's a massive liability. Your dog could injure someone or themselves and ofcourse in terms of hygiene it's not great either. Other things to consider would be interaction with guide dogs and other service dogs, could you control your dog around other animals? I'm guessing if you rarely leave your house apart from a few minutes away then your dog is not very well socialised to big crowds, noises or other animals. It must be tricky but honestly give the place a call, I know we are very willing to help anyone.

No but it's like telling someone off for leaving the tap running when the river's burst its banks and your house is flooded. A pretty pointless argument in the circumstances.

Just go to a supermarket that doesn't allow dogs! It's really not that hard.

Also, I'm not comparing dogs and children. 🙄 I'm saying I don't put myself in environments that I don't want to be in. I could have used music as an example instead if that's better – I don't like eating with loud music, so I avoid going into restaurants that play loud music. Some people enjoy this and it makes it a better experience for them. Good for them, and I'm glad there's spaces for everyone to enjoy.

Stop being so ridiculous about something that has zero impact on you unless you allow it to. If you know a supermarket allows dogs, and people are – within what the supermarket allows – taking dogs into the supermarket, then just don't go. If you put yourself in that situation then it's on you! (FWIW I'm not talking about people going into supermarkets that don't allow dogs and pretending they are service dogs – that's totally inappropriate).

You might not be able to get your dog registered as a service dog if she doesn't meet the requirements in training or if you aren't able to attend the training.

You can however join a waitlist to see if you can be matched with a trained autism service dog. This does mean another dog and another level of responsibility but it sounds like you are the sort of service user this service would benefit.

Chihuahuas aren't great autism service dogs as part of the service is that they're meant to put distance between you and other people, small dogs mean small distance, and they're not a breed known for their confidence.

But all supermarkets should be not allowing dogs in. It's a hygiene issue. Exemptions are made for properly trained service dogs because they can be trusted not to slobber over the food or urinate or defecate in the store.

What of those that have anxiety around dogs
Supermarkets are a bit of a safe space for me as I don't have to encounter them

Its OK saying its in a pram you don't really see it
but its like a big spider under the bed
might not be bothering you but when you know it's there, you know it's there

'Just go to a supermarket that doesn't allow dogs! It's really not that hard.'

• it would be a lot easier if people like you didn't take any dogs (except actual registered service dogs in there). Also, how do we know if a dog is in there or not before we go in? Most people would assume that random dogs are not in there!

'Also, I'm not comparing dogs and children. ' Also you....'In the same way, I will tend to avoid overtly family friendly restaurants as I like to have a bit of peace and quiet when dining out. I don't go around demanding that children not be allowed in any restaurants! That would be ridiculous as obviously some people want to eat out with children and it suits them to do so.'

• I am not really sure why you think that's not comparing dogs and children.

'Stop being so ridiculous about something that has zero impact on you unless you allow it to'

• Taking non-service dogs into a supermarket DOES impact other people though. Also, you are calling something ridiculous, just because you don't share that view. I could chose to call your point of view ridiculous too.

'(FWIW I'm not talking about people going into supermarkets that don't allow dogs and pretending they are service dogs – that's totally inappropriate).'

• Many what say that what you are doing is fairly inappropriate too. Again, it's probably less that they welcome you with your dog, and more that they don't want to create a fuss in case you kick off (you might not react that way but someone else might). They are not paid enough to police what people should have the common sense to police themselves.

@HenriettaBaguetta

Generally be a considerate person

There are plenty of people on this thread, and in the rest of the world, who are far more considerate to OP's situation than yourself. Are we just meant to be considerate to people you agree with, or considerate to everyone?

What's this argument you're putting forward about supermarket managers having plenty to do? If they haven't time to answer a question from a customer with disabilities, is the customer going to feel that they're being considerate to them?

I'm not sure you've fully considered what it means to be considerate, ironically. It's not about your preferences and how you think the world 'should' be. Managers manage the shop, and the customers' queries. Customers aren't supposed to be minding the poor, overworked manager's feelings, when they're asking one question about one disability issue.

It's not.
Germs are not the only potential issue with dogs in shops - lots of people are scared or allergic, and a supermarket isn't the place for non-service dogs.

Have you read any of the posts explaining why it's a bad idea to encourage anything other than service dogs in supermarkets?

And there are plenty of threads on here with people rightfully complaining about exactly this.

We have a fake "assistance dog" in our town that's badly behaved/untrained and it makes it very difficult for genuine service dog owners. They end up being hassled by security guards/refused entry to places because of the fake ones who've gone in and barked/toileted/nicked things off the shelf.

So no, it's not ok.

I love dogs but if you start taking your dog in, so will everyone else. I wouldn't think a supermarket environment is suitable for a dog, they can be very noisy and fraught. Customers these days argue over the slightest thing, your bound to have one causing a fuss over your dog.
Theres a man in the USA that has an alligator as a therapy pet. Takes it to the shops, another one has a goose, it squawks all the way round the store whilst it's owner talks very loudly to it, the staff look really fed up with it, especially when it messed all over the floor.

@Litmus1001

Yes, I have. I think op has a reasonable point re her dog bring a service dog, and I doubt that many would pretend to a member of shop staff that they had those issues, simply to get their dog into a shop.

What's your point re me having read those posts? Did you think that because I'd read them, I would need to agree with them?

I'm really not sure there's a slippery slope here. Most dog owners would be unlikely to need to take their dog into shops so badly that it would cause an overall issue. Most dog owners accept and accommodate the status quo, without the need to feign disability. Obviously on mn, the belief of many is that if this chaos carries on, we'll be finding dogs in our tins of soup before the day's out, but that's not real life.

The OP is autistic and finds shopping very challenging, and the dog would give emotional support by its presence.

I’ve seen a few “assistance” dogs that are clearly not trained to a high standard. I have a medical alert assistance dog (epilepsy) and it’s not the first time another dog in the supermarket has barked/pulled on its leash to try to get near to us/been sniffing at shelves/not walking to heel. If an assistance dog can’t behave appropriately in public it shouldn’t be working doing public access imo.

Many shop managers won’t challenge someone who has their dog dressed in assistance gear. I’m on many assistance dog FB groups and it’s shocking how many people think labelling an untrained dog or a puppy gives them instant access to places. The worst part is people in these groups are giving terrible advice to get emotional support dogs into shops/restaurants/concerts etc.

Why not OP.
don’t listen to the naysayers who insist on following every law, even laws that don’t exist.
These are the sort of people who taped off beaches during lockdown; there are unfortunately rather a lot of them

I'm sure that's true. But the issue is what happens when (like in America) people start wanting to bring all sorts of weird emotional support animals in? You'll first get people asking why not cats? Then as someone mentioned above you might get other emotional support animals like pigs, birds, goats etc. All very sweet animals in the right circumstances and places. But not to drag round a supermarket no matter how much support they give you. (And you can't use training as an excuse why only dogs. Because many dogs are not trained well at all yet some pigs and birds can be very well behaved and even trained to a certain extent).

OP''s dog isn't a service dog, and from what she has written, has not been trained in the way a service dog would be. She's calling it 'pretty much a service dog', when it sounds more like an emotional support dog - an entirely different thing.
The rest of what you have written is subjective/opinion, basically saying 'I don't think x will happen' and not addressing actual issues such as allergies and fear.
If a dog isn't a trained service dog it has no place in a supermarket.

Have you missed all the posts stating 'why not'?

@BellaAndDave

Yes, it's a shame that a few deceptive people spoil it. I'd imagine that if you put your complaints about specific dogs that cause you such problems to the shop management, they'll have a second look at those dogs. Have you tried that? They might overlook certification, but I don't think they'd overlook a dog eating ham out of another customer's basket, or peeing on the bananas. Would they? What's your experience been when you've had this problem?

@Litmus1001

If a dog isn't a trained service dog it has no place in a supermarket

Dogs are legally allowed in food shops. It is at the discretion of the shop, and not at the discretion of an irate member of the public such as yourself. Those are the facts. There's no need for you to like or agree with them. However strong your opinion, it will still not be up to you or anybody else except the shop.

@Litmus1001

Have you missed all the posts stating 'why not

You really do think that if only people would simply read an opinion similar to yours, they'd agree with you, don't you?!