To find my nine year old daughter draining

[Sasha998]

Can someone give me advice. I’m a single parents to two girls and the eldest (9) is really wearing me out. Her behaviour has gone awful and I feel like there’s just no peace in the house at the minute. She sees her father and me and him have a very amicable relationship. And I’ve been a single parent for some time.

I get that she’s at the age where puberty is kicking In but she’s absolutely awful to me and her little sister. She will call my younger daughter a ‘tramp’ or ‘disgusting’ if she wakes up and doesn’t shower/brush her hair straight away. She makes my younger daughter cry often by just being very mean to her, constantly looking at her and saying things like ‘eww you’re disgusting’. She has text me previously whilst at her dads house saying she HATES her little sister because she hasn’t combed her hair?!

she is constantly giving me attitude, if it’s not pulling faces at me or eye rolls it’s side eyes or talking to me like I’m a three year old (talking slowly and exaggerating the ends of words)

every single day there will be a battle in the house. In the morning she will refuse to have breakfast, at dinner she will constantly make excuses for whatever food I’ve made despite at times her choosing the food. She will make comments like ‘stop force feeding me I don’t want to be FAT’ (obv I don’t force feed her.) she will actually say to me it’s child abuse to tell me off!

I have wondered if she has an eating disorder of some type but i don’t think she has. She’s at the age where she is very image conscious, she will wake up extra early for school to ensure she has a long shower and pampering session before she goes yet always manages to evade breakfast.

she is extremely bright at school and in her after school activities so no issues there and is very well behaved at school, always gets glowing reports but with me and her little sister she just turns into this mean girl and I’m becoming to really dislike her behaviour. She just doesn’t listen to me. She doesn’t understand ‘no’ and will whinge and cry and do whatever it takes to get her own way.

this evening she made a huge drama about hot chocolate - id made both girls and myself a hot chocolate and she decided it was too ‘chocolatey’ so after persuading her to have it saying me and her sister have had it, it’s nice etc and she being adamant that she won’t have it, I told her to get ready for bed then because it was bed time anyway and she was non stop crying and whingeing and then came down and was like FINE ILL HAVE THE HOT CHOCOLATE and then afterwards said I force fed her it.. when she decided to have it. This might sound minor but she is constantly being manipulative and doing things like this on a daily basis

I just want to have relaxed evenings without having to worry about what she’s going to kick off about. I have had one to one time with her where her sister stays at her dads house (when my eldest refuses to go) but even when it’s just me and her she will find something to argue with me about.
for example, she wanted to go shopping last week, I was quite ill and had a bad stomach so I said I can’t take you today i am ill but we can go next week and she went crazy at me insisting I take her, despite knowing I was ill - the funny thing is, her dad had just taken her shopping the day before yet she insisted and ended up arguing with me

she has on occasions called me a ‘fat ugly pig’ (im not fat so it’s interesting she chooses to use this word) and other things which I am too ashamed to write on here (not swear words)

there are no issues at school. As mentioned she is excelling and has a good friendship group. She does after school activities and has hobbies.

she sees her dad every day, she’s fine with him.

I just don’t know what to do. And I don’t know what I’m doing wrong all I know is that I feel drained and I feel sorry for my younger daughter who sees this behaviour and is also on the receiving end of it

This.

He and his family have "issues". Major issues, and they are fucking her head up with them.

She has some kind of hygiene/grooming OCD/fixation because of them.

She's been groomed, pun intended, to consider normal hygiene/grooming (not showering at great length every day or twice a day and not brushing hair the second you wake up etc) as being disgusting. As being inferior.

She's now projecting that onto your younger DD and trying to bully her into the same fixation (the way she's been bullied and brain washed into it).

The food thing is looking similar.
She's opting for fruit as a snack due to its properties for skin and she clearly wants a "skinny" hot chocolate, she's freaked out by the probably normal amount of chocolate powder/sugar in it.

This family is a big problem.

I think you need sympathetic social services advice.
Mention the waxing as well as everything else.

They're going to fuck her head up, and they've got her bullying and trying to likewise fuck the head up of her little sister.

I'd be looking at paying for good quality family therapy for you and the girls (with a woman counsellor) as a matter of urgency

This too

I hadn't seen this before I posted.

He's not right in the head.

He is particularly nasty.

Your Dds cried going to him.

He and his family are now fucking their heads up.

You need to get some help from all sources you can, before this is irreversible.

This, @Sasha998👆

I can’t imagine calling my mum a fat pig and living to tell about it. I’d be dead before I hit the ground, metaphorically speaking.

You really need to show your daughter that both words and actions have consequences.

There’s only one boss in your house - and that’s you. It sounds like your daughter has forgotten that.

As pp's say something not right is going on & your daughter is acting up & taking it out on you because that's what you do with the 'safe' parent.

It does sound like she's being abused in some form.
How do you know that your ex & his family are not constantly making derogatory remarks about you in front of her?
And don't dismiss what 2 & 3 yr olds remember as one of my memories from just 3yrs old is my DM's then partner shouting at her & pinning her up against the kitchen wall because she'd been to see a female friend he didn't like.

I would talk to the school, your GP & maybe even Social Services as something is definitely not right.

If your DD's don't want to see their Father then don't force them to go.
And how on earth can you have an amicable relationship with someone who abused you if he hasn't given you a massive apology & shows remorse for his behaviour?
Civil maybe for the kid's sake but not amicable/friendly if he hasn't apologised.

I think she's getting the message from her father's family that image is the most important thing about her. You need to step in.

Right! Lord if I'd said that to my mom I would not be alive to be on mumsnet

Definitely go to go /look into counselling this sounds beyond typical cheekiness and is very image centred.

With regards to rudeness I would try not to argue/shout. Pick a few behaviours that are deal breakers and worker on those first. Pick a consequence and everytime she does that behaviour calmly give a warning. Then if she does it again give the consequence.

With regards to food, provide a range of food with several options. Let her eat what she wants. Don't comment, or make issue. Keep track of what she likes and try to make sure there's something she will definitely eat in the plate. If you are worried about nutrition make sure she takes a multi vitamin, try activities like making smoothies or homemade pizzas, Try blending veg into sauces or gravy.

I’d wonder if something has happened to your daughter to frighten her and the ramping up of eating and grooming is a reaction. She feels to blame and has somehow made a mental leap to if only she’d have been eating/living “clean” she’d have been safe? In that context, screaming at her sister to urgently clean herself might feel like she’s protecting her?

Maybe completely wrong though.

I'd love bomb her. Get her to plan a day and ask her what she would like to have for tea and have a few days where she gets to make all the decisions. Set aside time everyday (15mins) where you spend time doing what she likes. If it's putting make up on then do that together. Praise her and tell her how impressed you are with what she is doing. Build her confidence up. It's exhausting but you'll have a happier house.

We're way beyond that. The child spends huge amounts of time with her abusive father and his family and no one has protected the child from him/them. The girl needs professional help now and ideally a court order limiting the father's access to supervised only and zero overnights.

You're right. We've discovered she's been psychologically and emotionally abused by her father and his family all his life, having watched her mother also be abused and then befriend the abuser.

I wonder if a bit of therapy for your daughter or you both. This doesn't sound typical and while discipline is needed around the behaviour eg meanness to sister, this is worth getting under the skin of.

Surely you can’t be surprised then, that this is how she is turning out?
By your own accounts MIL and SIL are toxic and emotionally abusive.

You didn't see it because you've never really dealt with your own abuse. You got out and thought that was the end of it and you couldn't face the reality of coparenting with an abuser. But abusers are not good parents. You have a massive problem with boundaries and no doubt self-esteem, that's why it took you so long to get out of that abusive relationship. And it in turn damaged your self esteem and confidence some more. Now you have no boundaries with your daughter, which is why you thought telling her off was a consequence. You've not been able to put in place boundaries for your children against him and his family and you haven't respected the boundaries your eldest herself tried to lay down, when she refused to go to him.

I suspect he also sexually abused you, but you may not have recognized it, he would have gaslit you about it etc. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that someone over there is sexually abusing DD.

I'm not saying this to upset you, it's just that knowing it is the first step to fixing it, and you can fix it. Many women have done this before you.

Her refusal to go and crying is actually your perfect way out of this. It would be much less fixable if her instincts for self-protection had been abused out of her already and she was demanding to go. You can sit her down today and explain all this in child-appropriate language and say that you will now respect her wishes to not go to her father's house, that you should have listened to that before and you're very sorry. You'll explain that his refusal to take the youngest if she didn't go was abusive, bullying, emotional manipulation and that you're sorry you didn't realize that. Tell her that he did the same things to you and you didn't want to believe he was doing it to your children too.

Your ex will react badly to you finally standing up for your children, very badly. You need people on your side, especially professionals who can record the damage they've done to DD, as he will likely go the legal route to try to force contact. But to be honest once you take her side and explain to her that what goes on over there is wrong, and why, and that you'll do your best to protect her from now on, she has a good chance of recovering from this even if he does manage to force contact.

Thanks for all the advice

my daughter told me today that she doesn’t like going there because the internet is slow and ‘glitchy’ but she only just got an iPad this summer and has been refusing to go from previously so she then said it’s boring there. She said the grandma tells her after 15 minutes of iPad usage that it’s enough and to come off it and she will put a time limit on it. I’ve already set time limits on it but not for 15 minutes.

I asked her if the aunty and grandma still make mean comments and she said that they don’t but do emphasise the showering every day to which my daughter said ‘but that’s normal’.

with regard to abuse, I asked my daughter if her father is mean to her and she said no, he’s just boring. She has made comments like this before ‘I hate shopping with dad because he ks boring and just goes in and out of shops and going shopping with him is sooo boring’.

I know theres been some comments of SA but I don’t think this is the case. I can definitely see how it comes across like that though. I did probe a bit today, and questioned where she sleeps when she stays over and when I asked if they sleep in the same room she said ‘ewww that’s disgusting which 9 year old sleeps in the same bed as their dad, would you have slept in the same bed as your dad at nine?’

She told me yesterday what she wanted for breakfast today and chose a glass of orange juice and a croissant and that’s what she had.

She has made comments such as how her dad has a favourite child and cited an example of how when he has taken them shopping before, he brought my youngest daughter a huge tub of slime (which she chose) and then pointed at a pen lol for my eldest daughter (a nice one) and said ‘this is nice why don’t you get that’. My daughter said how is that fair i get a PEN and she got a huge tub of slime. So I did say that youngest chose that, and if she couldn’t choose something then dad may give her options to which she responded ‘but a pen? This is what I mean he is boring’. I can see why he chose a pen though as she does love stationary and loves to draw and write. But I also got her point

she also mentioned how once before going to their after school activity, dad took youngest to the shop (and eldest waited outside because she didn’t want to get late) and he brought youngest sweets and didn’t buy anything for eldest and when she asked him what he got for her, he said nothing because I didn’t know what you wanted

I think she is starting to get resentful of her sister believing that she is being favoured. With regard to finding her sister disgusting if she doesn’t brush her hair for example; I believe that is because at that age my eldest was already conditioned by them to always be ready etc and because they don’t follow the same rule with the youngest it gives her anxiety seeing her with her hair uncombed or not having had a shower

Sorry I’ve not read all the replies but if I’m honest it sounds like there are a few issues here.

why the fuck is a 9 year old allowed to behave like she is 18?

why does she have a phone ( this allowing her to stress you out even when she isn’t there) she is 9?

she sounds spoilt and overindulged and this is why as you’ve allowed some behaviours , she’s continues to push and it’s become out of control. She is still a child and is not in control of everyone else. She needs to be reminded of this.

re the eating. This is also a control issue. Has similar with my DD and she grew out of it. But obviously this can be serious and you should keep and eye and take her to the Gp if she becomes underweight etc.

my DD also had OCD that’s started around this age, led to other anxieties and self harm later. I would be seeking therapy asap. It’s all control based. And no matter what, you can’t stop having the parental control!

but essentially, some of what you described you’ve allowed. Stop. Get the boundaries back. Good luck!

She doesn’t have a phone but she does have an iPad which she only recently got. To be honest she is not that bothered about her iPad and isn’t always on it

The girl needs some therapy.

You minimise certain things in your post like her refusing to go to her dad but then say she's always "fine" with him. None of this is fine, she sounds very confused and unhappy and unsettled with her life.

Exactly. She's talking the way he has taught her to.

I'd be very worried about my daughter being in contact with such people and am surprised to hear you say you and your ex get on 'amicably' after reading your updates.

I would be having a frank conversation with her about how mean people like your SIL and her aunt are (presuming you have no chance of stopping/limiting contact with them).

I'd also be having conversations about healthy eating and how not eating enough can lead to being underweight which is unhealthy and not a desirable look either. From the hot chocolate incident, to me it seems clear that she wanted the hot chocolate deep down but said no perhaps because of worries about being fat or perhaps to prove some kind of strange point/loyalty to her other family members. You encouraged her and she gave in so in her mind you 'forced' her.

I'd ignore any refusing to eat just keep offering her meals and snacks, then take her to the GP if she is or becomes underweight and explain her dad's family has issues around food and looks and you're worried she's picked up on it.

I'd have an absolutely zero tolerance policy for any unkind remarks about anyone's appearance. Issue a consequence she absolutely does not like every time then talk to her about it once you are both calm.

Pick your battles, my 3 year old rolls his eyes at me! So I wouldn't battle over rolling eyes or stomping up the stairs at this point but absolutely crack down on the bitchy comments. If her apology is not sincere then just move on and have a frank discussion later on when you're both calm. Does she ever show remorse?

The updates are reassuring thanks for sharing. Hope you find a way through together you're clearly a very loving mum x

Wow - I posted my advice before the huge drip feed.
I would say re food please do stop making a drama out of it. She needs to know you are in charge of food (what is served, when and where) and if she is insecure this will help her feel cared for. She doesn't get to wind you up over whether she eats it or not.
Re the ex etc. she should NOT have to go if she doesn't want to, her anxiety over appearance is clearly coming from him and YES she knows what happened and saw it and heard it despite what you say. She's 9 and she has a younger sibling who was also there so obviously she was old enough to remember.

Thanks for the advice. She has ate a lot better today and she did choose her meals yesterday. Both girls shared some sweets today but she was getting annoyed when my youngest had a few more saying ‘ewww’ and ‘you’ll get cavities’ and tried to snatch the sweets from her to give to me. I calmly told her that I get she’s concerned but my daughter won’t get cavities from a few sweets and I’ll be the judge of whether the sweets she is eating is too much or not. I questioned why she said ‘eww’ if my daughter was eating more sweets and she said because she had sweets in both her hands, she could have at least put some down and ate them one by one. She did also call her ‘fat’ because she was eating the sweets and I told her calmly but sternly that we don’t use that word again in this house and if I hear that word again it will be a problem. She then said ‘I didn’t mean ‘fat as in fat but she had sweets in both hands so it made her look greedy’…..

can tell it’s going to be a long road ahead but I’ve taken on board the advice and will get help