Bull breeds 'Nanny Dog' myth

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This dangerous myth that bull breeds, originally bred for fighting, were historically known as 'Nanny Dogs' has to be countered. It is unfair on inexperienced owners and unfair on the dogs, who may not be cared for properly/dumped.

The 'Nanny Dog' myth came from Colby, a US breeder of fighting dogs, seeking to broaden his market. His dogs killed his nephew, so weren't exactly nannying him: https://blog.dogsbite.org/2010/05/1909-fatality-john-p-colbys-fighting.html

The 'Nanny Dog' myth is perpetuated by Pitbull advocates in the US and is occasionally also seen in the UK, with Battersea among those promoting it for Staffordshire Bull Terriers: https://www.battersea.org.uk/pet-advice/dog-advice/finding-right-dog-you/staffies

There is now a social media campaign with owners seeking to 'show the soft side' of their XL Bullies. Some very inexperienced owners who got XL Bullies as their first dogs are speaking out on their dogs being 'misunderstood': https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12519333/My-American-Bully-XL-look-scary-trust-nine-month-old-heartbroken-owners-defend-giant-breed-banned-UK-spate-vicious-dog-attacks.html

Bull breeds are fighting dogs, with the instincts and capabilities to fight, putting children, adults and other animals at risk. Retrievers retrieve, pointers point, herders herd. An animal charity would not have a campaign describing border collies as couch potatoes that can be left alone all day in a flat. So why are bull breeds pushed as 'Nanny Dogs'. There needs to be pressure on those (particularly organisations and media) repeating the 'Nanny Dog' myth to be honest about the origins and capabilities of these dogs, as well as the requirements and responsibilities of owning them.

I used to think this about my dog. His breed was designed for hunting rabbits. I had rabbits he was brought up with, we used to laugh how scared he was of them and other small animals, he would run away if a rabbit went up to him.

The one day a pigeon chick was practicing flying and landed on the ground. My dog pounced on it and killed it, feathers everywhere. It was a totally different side to him. The instinct is always there.

@Barnowlsandbluebells My DD has two chihuahuas and they are actually nice dogs, a little timid around strangers but not aggressive however when it comes to other dogs they are both firmly of the belief that they are in fact pitbulls in disguise.

The oldest one savagely attacks my Beagle/Rott cross, sometimes making him cry, if he angers her or dares to pick up a toy she has deemed to be hers (toys in our house are either shared or belong to the oldest Chi. The other two dogs are not allowed their own toys). The youngest one recently embarrassed himself on a day out by insisting on barking at every dog he saw, including the few impeccably behaved Bullies we came across.

Quite possibly, his dad is 10 now and never shown this side but of course its possible, I wouldn't be complacent about it of course, he has a good 'no game' cue but not bomb proof. I wonder what makes then see small dogs, cats, rabbits they are brought up around, see in the park etc not as prey but then will go for another, such as a squirrel or a bird.

@Frequency He's exactly the same - quite fearless in confronting other dogs. It's quite amusing watching him in action!

Where I used to live there was a neighbour with two xl bullies, plus another bull breed . The xl bullies seemed friendly enough but they were constantly escaping from the house as the people were too stupid to keep them contained. All three dogs would come charging out and scare the living daylights out of any poor unsuspecting passerby. I've seen people hiding behind cars, trees etc. It would often take a good 5 minutes to get them back inside. They never showed any obvious aggression but it seemed to me it would only be a matter of time before there was an incident.

By contrast, we have a bull breed (not xl) and neither our current or previous dog have ever escaped from the house or garden. Because we're careful. Both friendly dogs but we know they have the potential to scare people. Our neighbours with the xls didn't care about that, they thought it was funny. When this ban comes in they'll probably take no notice.

This feckless disregard for keeping their mutts secure and finding it ''Amusing'' seems to be part of the brainlessness of XL Bully owners.

I swear they are lacking in basic common sense and are as block headed as their hippo dogs.

Hopefully if the ban goes ahead, if these XL's are out without a leash and muzzle, they can be seized and euthanised.

That might focus the inept owners to be more careful.

I'm a scientist, and it will take several years before an expert publishes a peer reviewed article on what's happening now. I notice in a later post that you are referencing an article from 10 years ago re; dogs/human interaction, which will include information gathered over the preceding decades.

This situation is new - I have never heard of a middle aged, fit, healthy male being ripped apart by two dogs in a street in the UK after no provocation, as happened on Thursday 14th September. I don't think it's ever happened before? Previous studies on different breeds and their behaviour are irrelevant here. You sneer at 'average mumsnetters', but there are plenty of posts on this thread explaining how XL Bullies make them feel. I don't think it's fair to dismiss 'average mumsnetters' fear around a genuinely frightening situation we currently have no control over.

The trouble with chihuahuas is (again) people.

Chi’s give all the same warnings as every other dog, through body language, eye gaze, vocalisations etc. But people ignore it, because they think it’s funny - a tiny dog trying to look scary to warn you away.

If it was a bigger dog you bet they would pay attention and leave the dog alone.

Worse, often when a chi is giving these signals that they want you to back off, the person APPROACHES to try and pet the cute funny amusing silly dog. Or they get picked up and so feel restrained and unable to defend themselves. People approach bigger dogs slower and more respectfully - not so toy and other small breeds.

So the dog learns that there’s no point giving warnings because everyone just ignores them anyway - so goes straight to bite.

The owners are just as bad - they infantilise and baby and don’t treat them like a dog, allow poor behaviour to go unchecked, don’t exercise them enough because they think they are so little they don’t need it, don’t give enough mental stimulation etc

I have a chi x. She is NEVER carried around. She is never in clothes except a coat for walks of cold weather. She has excellent recall to whistle and many other commands. She is never tries to steal or beg for food - because we’ve taught her not to. Because we’ve treated her exactly the same as if she were a lab or a spaniel of any other kind of dog. (She does sleep on our bed though 😉).

Our vet alway comments on how refreshing it is to when they see toy breeds treated like the dogs they are - they are far happier and mentally healthy for it!

These are important points.

The 2021 killing of kennel owner Adam Watts, a strong guy, should have been a wake up call for the authorities. https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/8193259/adam-watts-dundee-kennel-dog-mauled-death/

A decade ago police were starting to struggle with large pitbull type dogs kept by drug dealers to disrupt raids. I cannot comprehend why action was not taken then. These dogs were bred as weapons and people are now putting their babies face to face with these monsters for a social media campaign.

Dogs will always live up to their breed traits its that simple. XL Bully's are bred to fight to the death, and it's rarely their own.
I have a German Shepherd, a very very well bred dog. And his instinctive breed traits are very pronounced in him. When the family are out on a walk he will herd us all together, if one of us strays too far away from the others. For this reason he is never off the lead around livestock. He is on constant guard, particularly of the front door and he also guards my DD as if his life depends on it. He is fiercely loyal and can get anxious if one of his 'pack members' leave his space. Pretty much exactly what you expect from a GSD. Now these traits are wonderful, but they can be tedious at times and have to be managed well in order to keep them from getting obsessive. But I knew as a GSD owner that these traits are hard bred into them and part of the territory.
XL Bully owners just seem to ignore the hard wired traits of these dogs. Like they believe that these dogs are the exception to the rule! It's moronic really. I also do not understand the relaxed boundaries around their dogs with their children. My DD is 11 months old and I supervise absolutely all interactions. I love my boy, but I'm not stupid enough to trust him 100% with her.
This ban is the best thing for the public, and this is coming from someone who absolutely loves big, powerful breeds. I'm just glad that when I walk past one with my DD I also have my boy next to me ready to protect us.

Agree with this. I used to work with dogs in socially deprived areas and lots of young men had staffies, often with studded collars and scary names, but it was rare for the dogs to be aggressive towards people. Staffies are pretty foolproof. The scariest ones were rottweilers and great danes although these were owned by a different demographic.. GSDs could be aggressive but generally their owners could handle them.

There's definitely a large breed factor in aggression, there are lots of reasons why the data are lacking, bites are often not reported, breeds are often not reported either, there are no records of the number of different breeds kept, etc.

Anecdotally I've often thought that council estate types can be good dog owners, they are probably not out all day working long hours, there are often lots of children and large extended families coming and going, as a result the dogs are well socialised and not neurotic with anxiety. A staffy in that type of home will be happy as larry. Contrast that to a typical middle class couple where they both work full time and the dog is at home alone most of the time.

Anecdotally I've often thought that council estate types can be good dog owners, they are probably not out all day working long hours, there are often lots of children and large extended families coming and going, as a result the dogs are well socialised and not neurotic with anxiety. A staffy in that type of home will be happy as larry. Contrast that to a typical middle class couple where they both work full time and the dog is at home alone most of the time

Stereotyping much there? "Council estate types" don't work full time, have loads of kids and people coming & going all the time? 🤨

A friend with an akita years ago she often referred to them as nanny dogs but it terrified me. I dropped by one day not realising she was out the dog let me in the garden I knocked on but when I went to leave it growled it kept me there for 15 minutes till the family returned. She brushed it off as being harmless I am so glad I did not have any of my children with me.

This post is confusing? So you went into the garden when the dog was there alone and it growled at you? I don't understand what the dog did wrong if you entered the property?

No dog can be trusted 100% A previously placed animal could hurt someone in particular circumstances such as illness or feeling threatened. However these dogs are too strong and powerful. They are not suitable pets. We do need to take action on this breed. I also think that we need more controls on dog ownership in general. Dog owners should for instance be obliged to keep dogs on leads when in public.

Sounds like it was loose in the garden.
It allowed the poster into the garden, but wouldn’t let her leave.
That IS dangerous.
What if a child entered? Or a postman?

People can be so dense.

This just HAS to be a troll post.

Do people on Council estates not work?

That is a really inflammatory and ignorant comment.

I just don’t see the need for these large jawed breeds? What do they add to dog ownership that perhaps a gun dog, terrier or herder doesn’t give? Surely most people get a dog for companionship, health benefits and the lessons they teach us.
No animal can be trusted 100%
All dogs have some degree of breed instinct.
All dogs can bite and attack but only a few have the ability to kill a human. I’m sure if people are honest, some of their choice to have these large breeds, is due to image - financially it certainly makes no sense!

The dog saw me at least 4 times a week in the house for years it let me in the garden no growling. It would not let me leave after I knocked on every time I went to move and try to get out of the garden it growled and would not let me leave.

Well to be honest it's pretty obvious why that is the case. A larger breed dog that is aggressive towards its owner won't survive long but an aggressive chihuahua will probably be tolerated. It's a questionnaire based study which are notoriously open to bias.

I don't think anyone is saying that small dogs aren't aggressive, the point is that they don't cause deaths as a result

This was in response to people saying that it's the type of owner that causes the dog to be aggressive, rather than the breed. I disagree. Obviously there are some people deliberately training their dogs to be aggressive. Most owners of whatever demographic do not. When staffies were the predominant breed there weren't these numbers of attacks. Now XL bullies are popular there are attacks. You can't just blame the type of owner. Although it is the case that certain breeds are popular with certain sectors of society, that doesn't mean the owners are at fault.

This is an important point.
Another factor is that the owner of a chihuahua or Yorkshire terrier, or similar, faces no risk of being investigated or their dog being removed if they do report it as being aggressive. Very different for the owner of a bull breed, who may also be seeking to ‘challenge misconceptions’ (you can find first time dog owners with Pitbulls making social media post to ‘educate people’) about their dog.

Why is someone entering someone's private property? I couldn't really figure out what the poster was saying, was the dog in a secured back garden and essentially the poster has entered the private property, or was if loose at the front? Why would a postman or child enter a back garden?

How did it not let her leave? Was it growling to warn her or was it aggressively snarling at her and backing her to a wall. Did it bite her or actually act aggressively in any way? The post is not worded well so I wasn't really sure.

All well and good but it doesn't excuse your stereotyping of "council estate types", which is what I commented on.