Bull breeds 'Nanny Dog' myth

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This dangerous myth that bull breeds, originally bred for fighting, were historically known as 'Nanny Dogs' has to be countered. It is unfair on inexperienced owners and unfair on the dogs, who may not be cared for properly/dumped.

The 'Nanny Dog' myth came from Colby, a US breeder of fighting dogs, seeking to broaden his market. His dogs killed his nephew, so weren't exactly nannying him: https://blog.dogsbite.org/2010/05/1909-fatality-john-p-colbys-fighting.html

The 'Nanny Dog' myth is perpetuated by Pitbull advocates in the US and is occasionally also seen in the UK, with Battersea among those promoting it for Staffordshire Bull Terriers: https://www.battersea.org.uk/pet-advice/dog-advice/finding-right-dog-you/staffies

There is now a social media campaign with owners seeking to 'show the soft side' of their XL Bullies. Some very inexperienced owners who got XL Bullies as their first dogs are speaking out on their dogs being 'misunderstood': https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12519333/My-American-Bully-XL-look-scary-trust-nine-month-old-heartbroken-owners-defend-giant-breed-banned-UK-spate-vicious-dog-attacks.html

Bull breeds are fighting dogs, with the instincts and capabilities to fight, putting children, adults and other animals at risk. Retrievers retrieve, pointers point, herders herd. An animal charity would not have a campaign describing border collies as couch potatoes that can be left alone all day in a flat. So why are bull breeds pushed as 'Nanny Dogs'. There needs to be pressure on those (particularly organisations and media) repeating the 'Nanny Dog' myth to be honest about the origins and capabilities of these dogs, as well as the requirements and responsibilities of owning them.

I got chills reading the list posted by @Frequency Our neighbour has an xl bully puppy and it seems like a nice enough dog but he's way out of his depth. He hasn't bothered to train it, left it out overnight during the summer, he spends more time on his treadmill than he does walking it, it seems to spend most of its time roaming around their back garden or crated in the house, his kids are always rough playing with it unsupervised (and the youngest has a disability). I actually feel sorry for it, it's obviously bored and lonely, we had to cut down our hedge and put up a 6ft fence to stop it straying into our garden and barking at us. It's a weird choice for our area too, mostly daschunds, French bullies and labradoodles so it stands out.

Thanks for the breeding genetics links. Really says it all doesn't it.

Not really a legislative thing, but I really hope all this does something to repair the reputations of (experienced, responsible) dog breeders. I know I had a vague idea in my head that "adopt, don't shop!" was the only ethical way to get a dog and breeders were basically all just puppy farms. There's a lot of tiktok/insta propaganda like "look at my adorable rescue mutt" with very vague ancestry. I still think rescues do great things but this whole thing has really made me raise an eyebrow at practices at some of them. I don't need a pure bred dog but I've realised I do want a well bred one!

@Middlelanehogger Agreed. There is something really wrong with a model where The RSPCA, Dog’s Trust and Battersea all know that there is wildly out of control backyard breeding because of the amount of pit bull crosses they are receiving but still insist on opposing new legislation.

It is one thing to love dogs and want them to be treated well but quite another to love dogs so much that you’re willing to let cruel breeding practises carry on just so more dogs can exist in the world. Absolutely insane really.

Last time I ever give to the RSPCA.

People don't have enough respect for the 42 teeth and jaws designed to chomp bones in my opinion. They also have innate prey drive which cannot be bred out or trained out. Dogs should be supervised and under control at all times they are in proximity to people. All breeds all dogs simple as. I own 2 very large dogs.

It's such a difficult subject isn't it. It is extremely frustrating that people get in dogs faces or allow young children to do so. I have an alaskan malamute, a really gentle boy (i know all his litter mates and parents and they are all the same from that respect), he has grown up around a pug and cats.

He's only 18 months and can be a bit nervous on walks esp if its noisy/windy. We have had men approach him and go straight to cup his face to talk to him, also young kids allowed to walk straight up and cuddle him face on.

Luckily he is really good at warning them and he will tuck his tail under and move to stand behind me.

I would be interested to know how many of dogs attacks happen just because the dog attacks for no reason, I suspect little to none, however the argument will always be whether people should own dogs who are over a certain size/strength as if they did attack then it would be virtually impossible to get them off.

I understand the reasoning for banning XL bullies, esp as there is no way of regulating who owns them but what actually happens to those who are already here? I am not sure I agree with banning them but unless ownership can be regulated then maybe it is a good idea.

I only know one XL bully, same age as my mal, when they first met at about 5 months my mal was physically much bigger but nowhere close to a match strength wise, even at that age the bully was absolutely solid and very strong. He had a lovely temperament though.

I see so many on FB selling groups, people just see really cute puppies, the amount of clearly 1st time dog owners and people with very young kids who enquire, and the sellers don't give a shit who they go to as long as they get paid for them.

I agree re the lack of respect, however I own a malamute who as a breed are supposed to have a very strong prey drive, I think he actually has none at all. He was with small animals from 9 weeks old and is more likely to run away from a bird or squirrel (or do a play bow in the hope it might want to play). We haven't had to train that at all, I think it's just that he has grown up around small animals so doesn't see them that way?

I get that other breeds may be different of course and perhaps that would never be the case?

I think that no matter how laid back or well trained all dogs have that one thing that flips the switch and the innate behaviour kicks in. One of my dogs isn't bothered about anything except other dogs who he loves the other would charge off after a paper bag if the wind blew it funny.

People also don't know enough about dog body language and can't judge when their dog doesn't like or has had enough. This particularly applies to people who lay babies next to dogs it makes my blood run cold when I see toddlers pulling themselves up on dogs

This is a really important point. Thousands of these dogs are being abandoned and euthanized by Battersea and the RSPCA. Why not put an end to this misery and danger? https://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2010/08_august/02/panorama.shtml

There's no such thing as a dog problem it just like everything else wrong in the world - there's a people problem.

“I trust my dog 100%”

More fool you.

I bloody love my dogs and I am anyone's definition of crazy dog lady but even I do not trust my dog 100%

I don’t understand why anyone needs one of these dogs, there are hundreds of other dog breeds in the UK if you want to have a pet. Nobody is being deprived of anything if this breed is banned.

@PugInTheHouse People show an astounding lack of respect for dogs and often ignore clear signs they're feeling uncomfortable. I remember being taught at a very young age to never touch an unknown dog, approach cautiously, etc but many people seem unaware of these basic rules or simply ignore them.

I don't think many dogs attack happen for no reason but it's almost impossible to build up a clear picture of the dog's past history and behaviour because you're so reliant on the account of the owner who is determined to protect their dog. I remember reading about one attack which apparently happened completely out of the blue, when the truth was that two children had been tormenting the dog with a meat pie.

A lot of XL Bullys seem to be kept in totally unsuitable conditions - as are many dogs - living in cramped flats/houses with inadequate outdoor space and underexercised. It will be interesting to see how many owners comply with the neutering and registration order. The ones making the most money out of breeding these dogs will continue churning them out no doubt.

@Barnowlsandbluebells

Then you haven’t watched the videos from the three recent attacks. Tell me- are children not allowed to play ball outside their own house, or run down the street. Are people not allowed to stand outside their own houses?

In all three of those situations the dogs came out on nowhere and attacked the first person they could get to. That poor boy was on his own driveway and the dog just zooms on from nowhere. The kid did nothing.

That may well be true, but we still only saw the end of what happened so no idea of the lead up to the attacks. You are absolutely correct that it shouldn't have happened though, even if it wasn't out of the blue the fact is that some of these breeds are capable of killing very quickly.

My ex had a pitbull, some moron in the pub kicked him hard as he walked past and it bit a chunk out of his leg, it was a reactive bite after being hurt, not a prolonged attack and still did considerable damage. If he had reported it I suspect the dog would have been put down even though the dog had been hurt. If he had kicked a pug then I imagine even if the dog reacted in the same way it wouldn't have even broken the skin. I am guessing this is the overall problem isn't it.

I have always been nervous about dogs although I am more comfortable with friends dogs because I know and trust the friends iyswim.

But I'll admit I don't always know what body language to look for. If an owner calls out, while a dog is running towards me "don't worry he's just being friendly" I don't always get what shows me that the dog is friendly if that makes sense?

I was out running once when a dog approached. I slowed down, the owner was sone way behind. They called out don't worry he's friendly. But then the dog started crouching and growling at me which I could clearly see that I wasn't being viewed as a friend, and then it jumped at me. I wasn't hurt and the owner eventually caught up and reprimanded the dog (although surely it was acting on instinct rather than being naughty)

@Barnowlsandbluebells exactly, I have always taught mine the same. Trouble is having a fluffy breed like a mal attracts men (who outside the house he's scared of, inside he'd literally let a burglar in and lay on his back for a tummy rub) or small children who think he's fluffy and soft and want to hug him.

Everyone else is much more cautious as he looks like a wolf and is pretty huge, they usually ask if he's friendly etc, or sometimes if they have dogs they cross the road as they think he's a husky and their dogs are scared of them (who have a bad reputation even though most are totally lovely).

@Boudicasbeard I did clearly state that it was impossible to know the previous history and behaviours of the dog and what may have led up to an attack over the preceding weeks and months. No dog attacks are excusable but it's impossible to know if there was a trigger for the dog and the degree that environment played in it.

"Reactive" is a word that has lost all meaning as well. "He's not aggressive - just reactive to humans, food, noises, a light breeze..."

And excuses for bad behaviour like 'he's still a baby' when the dog is clearly at least three years old with no recall or other basic training whatsoever.

@EsmeSusanOgg I laughed reading that study thinking how my Beagle cross would deal with the tests presented. He has three ways of solving food puzzles.

1. Bash the item hiding the food with his head or feet He had a lot of success with this method with early food puzzles he was given (treats under plastic cups).
2. Pick the item up and shake it as hard as he can (he has found this works wonderfully with treat balls that are supposed to be rolled around the floor)
3. And if all else fails, just eat it. All of it. The puzzle and the treats.

Of course, breed effects behaviour and also physical traits eg Beagles are very food-orientated and their brain tends to migrate to their nose when they pick up an interesting scent. Labs are well known to eat everything and anything including flooring and furniture. If it fits in their mouth, they will eat it.

Aggression is viewed and studied differently to other behaviours because unlike scent work, chasing, herding and guarding, aggression is not a behaviour that is innate to the Canidae Genus family.

Studies into wild Canidae species (Wolves, Dingoes, Jackals, African Wild Dogs etc.) have shown they typically avoid aggressive interactions with their own species and instead use calming behaviours and visual and vocal communications to interact. They'll avoid interactions with humans and other species they are not familiar with. They certainly don't view humans, even small ones, as prey animals.

Studies into packs of feral dogs have shown the same, with the exception of Chihuahuas who we all know are assholes. They avoid aggression and human contact; even when they live closely with humans, they generally do not pose a threat.

Although studies into pet dog aggression are always thought to be flawed (due to the inability to control environmental factors and the limited size of the test pool) they do often show trends, however, it is not Pitbulls who tend to come out on top regarding aggression towards humans (nor it is labs, fwiw, labs are thought to have the highest number of bites because more of them exist), it is dachshunds and chihuahuas who usually come out as the most aggressive. Bull breeds can have a propensity to be more aggressive towards other dogs but even then they are beaten to first place by Dachshunds and Chis.

One recent study actually showed that bull breeds are pretty similar to labs when it comes to stranger aggression and less likely than labs to show aggression to their owners.

this is the study but you have to pay for full access

The dogs with the big powerful jaws and large in size are always going to be a danger to humans. There are so many lovely dog breeds I just wish they ban the large jawed large body ones like XL bullies and pitbulls. They could bring it in gradually so all of these male dogs must be neutered so stop their breeding.

They should also be made to wear muzzles when out in public. Owners should face heavy fines for non compliance.

with the exception of Chihuahuas who we all know are assholes.

Yep. My hairdresser has an intact Chihuahua. It's bitten me (and pretty much everyone else) on every single visit for the past ten years for no other reason than it's an asshole. It also pisses all over her house and its party trick is lying on its back presenting its balls to you with considerable pride.