Bull breeds 'Nanny Dog' myth

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This dangerous myth that bull breeds, originally bred for fighting, were historically known as 'Nanny Dogs' has to be countered. It is unfair on inexperienced owners and unfair on the dogs, who may not be cared for properly/dumped.

The 'Nanny Dog' myth came from Colby, a US breeder of fighting dogs, seeking to broaden his market. His dogs killed his nephew, so weren't exactly nannying him: https://blog.dogsbite.org/2010/05/1909-fatality-john-p-colbys-fighting.html

The 'Nanny Dog' myth is perpetuated by Pitbull advocates in the US and is occasionally also seen in the UK, with Battersea among those promoting it for Staffordshire Bull Terriers: https://www.battersea.org.uk/pet-advice/dog-advice/finding-right-dog-you/staffies

There is now a social media campaign with owners seeking to 'show the soft side' of their XL Bullies. Some very inexperienced owners who got XL Bullies as their first dogs are speaking out on their dogs being 'misunderstood': https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12519333/My-American-Bully-XL-look-scary-trust-nine-month-old-heartbroken-owners-defend-giant-breed-banned-UK-spate-vicious-dog-attacks.html

Bull breeds are fighting dogs, with the instincts and capabilities to fight, putting children, adults and other animals at risk. Retrievers retrieve, pointers point, herders herd. An animal charity would not have a campaign describing border collies as couch potatoes that can be left alone all day in a flat. So why are bull breeds pushed as 'Nanny Dogs'. There needs to be pressure on those (particularly organisations and media) repeating the 'Nanny Dog' myth to be honest about the origins and capabilities of these dogs, as well as the requirements and responsibilities of owning them.

I saw a dog bite a child recently while rough playing. The child had a puncture wound from a big fang tooth and cried a lot. The dog was put on a lead for 20 mins. It wasn’t a bully but a large unpredictable dog of another big breed that is used as a guard/service dog. The owners/parents completely brushed it off as just one of those things and as the dog is a new rescue, just teething problems. The issue is dogs placed with naïve or idiotic owners who have DC take such incredible risks. I refuse to go near that dog again. It should not be with kids. Problem is people never think it can happen so take no precautions

@HRTQueen I agree that breed has some influence on a dog's disposition towards aggression however it is hard to quantify exactly how much of a factor breed is in aggression because you have to take into account the environmental factors and it is no secret that certain socioeconomic groups are drawn towards certain types of dogs i.e young women and girls to Chihuahuas, middle class women to labs and poodle crosses and a certain type of young men to bull breeds.

It is generally agreed in the scientific community that environment has the biggest impact on a dog's behaviour and I don't think it is unfair to acknowledge that certain socio-economic groups are less likely than others to provide a suitable environment for a dog (or other living creature).

One of the most robust studies into fatal dog attacks showed that 4 or more of the below were present in over 80% of fatal dog attacks;

1. No able-bodied person was present to control the dog.
2. The victim was compromised in their ability to act appropriately with the dog due to age or impairment
3. The dog was not kept as a socialised household pet (aka often kept outside or crated away from day-to-day family life)
4. The dog was intact
5. There was a known prior history of mismanagement (i.e. the dog was found straying more than once or otherwise not under the control of its owner)
6. A prior history of abuse or neglect.

All of the above factors are more likely to be present in lower social-class households than they are in middle-class households therefore bullbreeds are more likely to be exposed to these environmental triggers than other breeds.

Breeding as in whether or not a dog is responsibly bred (e.g. bred for the betterment of health, temperament, and welfare) has a massive impact on behaviour and appearance as proven in the ongoing Silver Fox study (which is genuinely fascinating if you are at all interested in the science behind evolution, domestication or selective breeding). And again, Bull breeds are more likely to be bred by people who are less educated and less responsible.

This.

Really interesting-thanks for sharing - do you have a link to the report?

It's from "The Domestic Dog: Its Evolution, Behavior, and Interactions with People". by James Serpell.

I did an essay on the impact of breed on canine human aggression as part of my degree (with a focus on bull breeds) so I have a lot of old books and research studies that aren't freely available on Google. According to my essay, the study was by Patronek et al 2013, but I haven't referenced the name of the study.

Regarding XL Bullies, the statistics on dog bite fatalities are clear. The coroners' reports have shown the scale of the damage. There have also been sustained attacks, so this is not a dog resource guarding or surprised/injured and biting once. Where the breed of the dog was disputed (the dog walker case), it was a large Pitbull. US statistics show the prevalence of serious bites from Pitbulls and multiple surgeons have spoken out. Many of us will have been bitten by Jack Russells/Chihuahas/Dachsunds/etc, but have typically lived to tell the tale with no long term damage. This is very different from a dog capable of tearing flesh, crushing bones and often targeting the neck and face. It is disturbing that XL Bullies have been promoted as family dogs. The pictures of young children face to face with them are massively irresponsible and indicative of owners who do not understand dogs owning a powerful breed.

Noting the Battersea promotion of Staffies as 'Nanny Dogs' is not an attempt to malign the breed. It is a concern that there is not honesty about the origins and needs of these dogs, and what this means for owners to train and socialise them responsibly. The 'Nanny Dog' myth does not just put children at risk, it is harmful to dogs who may be taken on by owners who do not grasp the reality of owning a specific type of dog only to not meet its needs, actively neglect it or abandon it. Look up the kill rate for Battersea and the percentage of abandoned dogs that are bull breeds - this is far more offensive than saying a myth is harmful.

I agree that an attack by an XL Bully is far more likely to have devasting consequences than an attack by a spaniel or dachshund but my argument is not that Staffies and other bull breeds are stronger than some other breeds it is that breed is not a reliable predictor of temperament.

No dog is a nanny dog. Certainly, no dog, not even a Chihuahua, should be left unsupervised with children but no dog is an inherent danger based on breed alone either.

Environment is the key factor and this is why BSL has not worked and will never work. Breed is the smallest part of the equation.

I have worked with Malinois and they have impressive instincts and capabilities, which can be built on to develop outstanding dogs. They are unmatched in the areas where they work, but they are also extremely demanding and completely unsuitable for many situations. A border collie has natural instincts to herd, making them valuable assets for farmers, but trouble if they are bored, under exercised and left alone to try to round up kids in the garden. Why is the breed of the XL Bully, a dog descended from Pitbulls, disputed as a factor in the spate of attacks. Anyone who has worked with dogs will be aware of breed instincts and capabilities, how these can be developed and where they need to be checked. Of course environment is a major factor in how the dogs turn out. However, when dogs react with bad behaviour they are often following breed instincts and capabilities in an out of control and inappropriate manner.

I've owned rescue staffies and a bulldog for over 20 years starting when my son was 11 and my disabled daughter 7 I was bitten twice.... once by a poodle as a child and once by a shitzu on the face ( bless them didn't mean it 🤦‍♀️) my friend laughed when her cute shitzu lunged at my nose and made it bleed as 'little Vinnie' didn't do that did he??? 🤬 but of course a cute looking dog biting doesn't get reported!

I was also a volunteer at Battersea and to say that staffies/bull breeds were the breed most likely to be aggressive or destroyed is simply not true.

My friend has a rescue Staffie from a heroin dealer - He is a gentle boy. He is 11 now- gentle with my Whippet {We introduced them off territory initially}
I woke up to THIS..A great lummox of a face looking down saying ''Wake up!'' when I stayed over.. Generally Staffies are fine. Have met loads.

Different to XL Bullies who seem very dog aggressive.

I have a cocker spaniel. She is great, friendly etc. and pretty tolerant of small children. I would still not trust her alone with young children - because even a minor altercation can cause major damage. And spaniels are specifically bred to be 'soft mouthed' so they bring back shot down ducks/ pheasants without biting and damaging the meat.

People who say they trust their dogs 100% with babies etc. are setting up their dog for failure (and putting their children in danger).

On a separate note, Staffordshire Bull Terriers tend to be small-to-medium sized dogs. Which is very different to the big XL Bullies. Not sure why people keep conflating the two.

Battersea has spoken out about this for more than a decade. The Director of Operations spoke out about the appalling kill rate (2,800 out of 7,866 is more than a third), the increase in bull breeds abandoned (nearly half of the dogs taken in by Battersea) and the difficulty housing many that cannot share a kennel with other dogs:

The rescue charity has an open intake policy, which means they aim to never turn a dog away. During this period the charity took in 7,866 dogs explains Scott Craddock, Director of Operations Battersea Dogs and Cats Home. He says: "Last year we reunited over 2,000 dogs to members of the public, those dogs which came in as strays. We re-homed 3,000 dogs, just over. But, sadly, over 2,800 dogs were put to sleep."
That's around a third of the total number of dogs Battersea Dogs & Cats Home took in last year.
Of the 2,815 that were put down, 1,931 of them were healthy but were judged to be too much of a risk to be offered to the public for re-homing because of their temperament or behaviour...
"In 1996 we took 396 Staffordshire bull terriers. Last year we took 3,600, so that is an 850 per cent increase over that time span and for us that's a huge problem – we can't actually kennel these dogs with other dogs in many cases. They have to be given an individual kennel. So that has a huge impact on kennel space at the home," says Scott Craddock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2010/08_august/02/panorama.shtml

Purely anecdotal but when I was a teen staffies were the "hard man" breed du jour. I grew up (and indeed still live) in a deprived area and lots of my male friends had one with the sole purpose of being a tough accessory. They were all delightful and although some were a bit mad (excitable) I don't remember any being aggressive. I was a bit nervous around them when the trend took off but that soon turned to mild amusement at all these hard knocks with their cute affectionate dogs.

German shepherds were the next fad and that was way scarier but it didn't last long because most couldn't control them.

Nowadays where I live staffies tend to be family dogs/old lady dogs and German shepherd's are old man dogs. Some hard knocks have bully XLs but I don't see them nearly as much as I used to see staffies back in the day (if I had to guess I would say they are prohibitively expensive). American bulldogs are more common for that purpose in my experience.

There was an interesting study reported earlier this year that does indicate how breed can impact behaviour. Though obviously breed alone is not the only determiner in how a dog will behave.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-26991-5

I think a big issue is inbreeding and breeding unhealthy dogs who then have less predictable behaviour. To combat this you really need to crack down on backyard breeders as well as puppy farms.

I think lockdown and the lack of normal socialisation of dogs has also led to some poor/ unusual dog behaviour. With dogs suddenly being left alone/ having less exercise and interaction as people go back to offices (even part time) exacerbating issues.

Banning XL Bullies is a quick temporary fix that is potentially easier to enforce than other options in law. Which is why it is being looked at. But it will not address wider issues of people breeding potentially unhealthy and dangerous crossbreeds alone. The people who want to breed tough fighting dogs, and encourage these dogs to be aggressive/ appear aggressive will start cross breeding other dogs to create the new 'problem dog'.

They were actually rescued off someone who couldn't cope with them when they got to big for his flat! They aren't trained I anyway to guard or work! It was the farmers wife who just turned up with two adorable 7 month old puppy's! They are now 3 and haven't shown any aggression at all! But all farm dogs are in the caged area (unless out working) if any of us take our kids up to the farm. Not as any are nasty the farmers are all always to busy to keep an eye on the dogs as sometimes we can't always fully watch our children when with the horses. So it's just a policy! But I would only assume the xls would lick anyone to death should the farm get robbed again as the do anyone that walks onto the farm! But it's just not worth risking it now. Although I wouldn't feel bad should they attack someone with bad intentions entering the farm

https://bullywatch.link/breed-genetics/

It's just very naive to leave children and dogs together, too many variables. Kids can be too noisy, rough and unpredictable, and most don't know enough about dog behaviour or body language. Even a generally calm, patient dog could react aggressively when startled or in pain.

As a child one of my neighbours was a police dog trainer who kept labs and GSD as pets, and I sometimes think he was stricter with the kids than the dogs, we were never allowed to tease the dogs (like pretending to throw something), rough play or crawl all over them. I think some owners treat their dog like another child, and accept the nanny dog or gentle giant myths.

I agree it terrifies me when I see people posting pics of large dogs with babies and children.Dogs can get jealous very easy we had a rescue Alsatian that I had been walking for a year when it attacked me without warning thankfully I was wearing a thick coat but it ripped it to shreds I was left with bad claw marks and bites on my back. The dog got jealous I was showing attention to my friends toddler sister.

I don’t know if this has been posted yet but this is an excellent resource from Bully Watch that is based on research into breeders.

XL Breed genetics

They were very much bred with size and agressive in mind. The most prized line started with a dog that was 30.3% inbred and further inbred fathers to daughters and brothers to sisters from there. Killer Kimbo had one dog as all four grandfathers- one dog in four slots. It is repulsive.

The breeders can hand wring all they want but they did it to themselves.

Sorry @Ffghhhbdbfb I didn’t see your post 🤦🏼‍♀️

@oakleaffy Ha! My Lab used to do that, you’d wake up to heavy breathing and a furry face on the edge of the bed 😂
aww such a Lucky boy getting rescued and finding a lovely home.

News has been updated today regarding XL’s they’ll have to be neutered/spayed, kept on a lead and muzzled when out in public and insured. Thing is, I imagine most responsible owners do this anyway…
Most attacks seem to occur in the owners home or the dog has escaped.

No worries, it needs to be shared and read as much as possible.

Reading about the breed line where a dog mauled a person to death makes me wonder whether the police have worked through the pedigree (I use the term loosely!) of dogs that have killed.

I have a very gentle, people loving, dog and there is no way I trust her 100%. She has given me no reason not to trust her, but I am extremely cautious with her and DC. Have taught my DC to let her come to them.

She is always on a lead in public places. I'm very sceptical of other dog owners that claim to 'know' their dogs motivations. I know I work a lot harder with my dog and am a lot more cautious than family members with a much more relaxed attitude.