To believe that every adult in the country should undergo safeguarding training?

[TheOutlaws]

I’m a teacher in a secondary school.

Every year, my colleagues and I undergo (harrowing) safeguarding training. Every week, I report children to our safeguarding lead. Mumsnet threads are full of people recommending that adults keep secrets, which is antithetical to safeguarding.

If you see something untoward, or are party to a disclosure, you MUST report it. Victoria Climbié only reached hospital because a taxi driver disobeyed her ‘aunt’s’ instructions to drive her elsewhere. He took her to A&E instead, where she died of her injuries.

We all have a responsibility to report incidents, because they might be part of a bigger picture.

What is the impact of exposing school staff to traumatic images? It seems quite seriously risky to be doing this to non-specialist staff.

The impact from a training point of view is that when people are stressed or anxious they don’t absorb information accurately, so showing a harrowing picture while explaining process or procedures makes it likely the participants will remember the image but not accurately recall the assessment process or whatever was being explained at the time. There’s also the chance that safeguarding becomes linked with the emotional impact of the photos meaning people then approach safeguarding with an urgency born out of anxiety rather than being able to clearly assess the nature of their concerns calmly in a measured way.

Those images don’t actually help anyone in their assessment skills, because people doing foundation training wouldn’t be involved in complex investigations - they need to know how to raise concerns. Using those images is designed to elicit an emotional response, not to inform or educate, and in my view is deeply unethical. We don’t emotionally blackmail people to take safeguarding seriously. It needs a cool head, not a knee jerk reaction.

How would you enforce that? I definitely wouldn't be giving up my time. My children are in their 20s, no grandchildren yet, no contact with other children. No interest in being responsible in any way for other random children. If I saw/heard something wrong I'd call the police and report it. I certainly don't need any enforced do-gooding.

I used to work in a school.

We were required to do annual child protection training.

In practice this meant that we were sent 10 or more lengthy documents (120 pages plus) which we had to sign to say we had read and were talked at for three hours.

Once a newbie looked at the documents and then said to our HoD I'm really sorry, but I read quite slowly so it's going to be a while before I can sign to say I've read them.

My HoD said - well HR need everybody in the school to have signed off on them in the next 48 hours. Nobody has time to read them in that 48 hours as you are teaching, prepping lessons etc. just sign.

I worked in education for 20 years. I reported multiple concerns over that time. The majority of them were met with "oh yes we know all about that you're the fourth person today". Where I was the only person the child and family were always already known to social services.

I don't think reporting is the problem here.

What we need is a system where if an allegation is made the kids are automatically removed from the parents' custody and there is an assumption of guilt unless the parents can prove otherwise.

You clearly have absolutely no idea about safeguarding. If you did you’d know the vast majority of children aren’t removed from their parents because there is no need. Children are deeply traumatised by removal from their parents, even where there’s harm being caused, it’s a measure of last resort for a reason. The majority of concerns are dealt with on a voluntary basis with parents engaging well with services and support, it’s very rare that a parent will present a life threatening risk to their child - we can’t operate on that basis in every single case.

Social work receive many reports of safeguarding concerns that come to nothing, because the situation didn’t merit a CP response, or because the allegations were false, or malicious. We can’t visit the trauma of being removed from home just in case.

And as for being paid to raise concerns, that wouldn’t be open to abuse at all…

Also, it's hardly as if we do a good job safeguarding those DC who are removed from their parents. The state is an inadequate parent.

This proposal, and also the OPs, show a really misguided level of faith in our systems.

I agree with the idea of raising awareness of safeguarding, but mandatory training for every adult? That's completely unworkable.

I appreciate the feedback that the training i recieved is not best practice which is why it was more upsetting than it should be.

Perhaps i am just a sesitive soul, but my latest safeguarding training included watching a video called 'did you see it coming' by surrey police. Harrowing isnt the right word at all. But it was still an unsettling watch.

I assumed this was a very tongue in cheek response once I read it. Especially as it would mean being paid to make 99 fake accusations per year.
I thought it was a clever reply that shows just how much care and thought is REALLY needed, above knee jerk reactions.

Yes, nobody with bright ideas about mandatory activities for the whole population/whole cohorts of adults (new parents, 18 year olds etc) ever tells us where the resources are going to come from to enforce it.

Are you Chris Morris or are you really typing this in seriousness?

Financial incentives for up 100 false allegations each year that result in automatic assumption of guilt and removal of children????

This neatly explains why trying to involve the general public in a safeguarding army would be a shitshow. I'm hoping it is satirical!

I don't think you always needs an implementation plan for a "bright idea" in order to suggest it. The Tories manage without.

Why? I have zero Interaction with children, except my nieces and nephews once a year, if that. It would be a waste of money!

Op sounds like you have a good heart, I just don't know the answer.

Lmao

Op said a quick video (as in refresher) every year and in-depth training every 3 these will remind you of things to look for and the reporting procedures as well as new trends and changes to regulations.

Safeguarding is not just about children.
What about vulnerable older people, people who are being used as slaves or people with a learning disability whose benefits are being taken?

The poster who suggested some sort of public information campaign rather than 'training' made a good point.

Raising awareness of what constitutes abuse / warning signs and then what to do next.

My concern would be that with more reporting there's insufficient social workers to investigate. But I suppose that's a different issue to people not seeing it as their business to report in the first place.

How do children access the proper services if a busy body doesn't refer them in the first place? Or are you suggesting a child calls it in themselves?

What about signs that are not physical injury?

Training not really necessary but a campaign with the message "safeguarding is everyone's responsibility" definitely would be good.

But ultimately as others have said if the resources are not there to adequately investigate then it won't help. That's the area we need to address.

A few years ago now but I know of an alcoholic/addict father who had multiple referrals made about him and SS deemed contact with the kid in her best interest. One day she find him dead on the floor and has to phone for help.

DV support groups are full of mothers who cannot protect their kids because SS/court deem contact with an abusive father on the child's best interests. And don't forget once you have a court order SS/police will avoid getting involved saying they can't override a court order.

In fact apart from one example where a child was removed to save her from being shipped off to get married growing up with my parents as foster parents from the little of the kid's situations I understood it was always the mothers deemed unfit and the abusive fathers who were forcing contact and winning. Considering the vast majority of abuse is performed by men it's never made sense to me.

But ultimately as others have said if the resources are not there to adequately investigate then it won't help. That's the area we need to address.

Yep. The resources, which doesn't just mean money, need to be there. As do the structures. We won't patch anything up otherwise.

So deeply sorry to read this 💐

Absolutely agree op

So many people think "not my problem" then beat their breast when things like baby p and Victoria clumbie happen

Hypocrites

What about signs that are not physical injury?

A member of the public in a brief interaction/observation isn’t likely to notice anything that isn’t pretty obviously maltreatment. There’s a lot of emphasis placed on the idea that there are clear “signs” of abuse, when really nothing is as clear cut. Is the child quiet and withdrawn because they’re traumatised, are they unwell, having a bad day, neurodiverse. Did they pull back from their parents touch because they’re scared, or don’t like being touched, have sensory issues etc etc.

Awareness raising is important but creating an industry out of poorly planned, inappropriate training isn’t the way forward.

If you saw a child walk past you in the street, on their own, crying, covered in bruises, and you were the only person around, wouldn't you want to know what to do?

What I didn't realise was the timescale after a report - it's 45 days before anything can happen, which for a child can feel like a lifetime.

What in earth are you talking about? If I have concerns for a child’s safety I can seek removal immediately through the court or using police emergency powers. A CP concern (as opposed to a request for services or support) needs a home visit within 24 hours. While it may take up to 45 to complete enquiries and bring the case to a case conference to consider registration, there’s a lot happening behind the scenes to protect the child and, if necessary, the child can be removed at any time.

Perfect example of safeguarding training being ineffective.