To believe that every adult in the country should undergo safeguarding training?

[TheOutlaws]

I’m a teacher in a secondary school.

Every year, my colleagues and I undergo (harrowing) safeguarding training. Every week, I report children to our safeguarding lead. Mumsnet threads are full of people recommending that adults keep secrets, which is antithetical to safeguarding.

If you see something untoward, or are party to a disclosure, you MUST report it. Victoria Climbié only reached hospital because a taxi driver disobeyed her ‘aunt’s’ instructions to drive her elsewhere. He took her to A&E instead, where she died of her injuries.

We all have a responsibility to report incidents, because they might be part of a bigger picture.

I absolutely agree with the points about FB/next door and the reporting under COVID.

We need proper systems, not chaotic paranoid vigilantism.

It is extremely damaging to investigate families wrongly, there are serious risks to incorrect reports especially if widespread.

I'm sure they do, but I don't see it. Most people don't watch live TV these days, and I've never seen a single thing from them on social media personally.

It needs to be on billboards, bus stops, out on the streets.

A government awareness campaign would bolster it - it can't be a bad thing.

120 pages of dozen+ documents to confirm we read first & 3 hour passive annual in-person lectures (repeating all the info in the 120 pages) is my experience of SG training. Delivered annually. Our rule is absolutely not to enquire or investigate: we suspect, observe, report. Others investigate. We need an annual 3 hour refresher in person training to be competent at all that (apparently).

I couldn't last the whole session. Worst training experience ever. I couldn't stay awake. So I've failed SG.

I should say I'm a volunteer who has DBS and most my volunteering involves no contact with the vulnerable service users.

but sure... put the whole population thru that. woohoo.

@bidibidi No, I’m not advocating for that. The alerted training would suffice. An understanding of safeguarding principles and practices.

I am an IT manager. I don't have children and rarely encounter them so had barely heard of safeguarding until i got a job in a school and had to do their training. It was an eye-opener.
I hope I never have reason to use that training but knowing what to do and, even away from work, bein aware of it, makes me able to be a better member of the community. OP is right

@FredtheCatsMum Really interesting post, this is exactly what I’m talking about.

Ok but isn’t it basic common sense? If I was on a train and a child needed help if I was the only one who could then I’d help- seems pretty unlikely but fine - the taxi driver who took Victoria to the hospital didn’t need training to know to do that either

You seem not to understand much of what I'm trying to say.

If you lower the threshold for reporting, you will capture a much bigger pool and therefore a much bigger number will be people who do not need help.

Thus more of your limited resources will be used writing off unnecessary referrals. Meaning you will have fewer resources for each child who really needs the help. Meaning they are less likely to be properly helped.

If your way worked, the answer would be to just refer everyone.

I understand you are well meaning, but the approach of casting the net wider will dilute the help those in need get.

We need PROPER investment in professional services.

And don't try to pretend you're the only person who cares. I care deeply. It's just the op's idea is a really futile suggestion.

@Shoxfordian Yes, it’s basic common sense, totally agree. But the countless professionals/agencies/members of the public who didn’t report Victoria Climbié didn’t use it.

It is on billboards and on bus stops too, and at the cinema, and in shops.

I was an abused child (physical, emotional mainly).

I came from a nice middle class family. I lived in a good house in a nice area. I was well dressed, well fed, I went to activities and my parents both had good jobs. Bloody Hell, we were even members of the National Trust!

Whilst I agree with you about cuts to the services you mentioned, I would not have been picked up by any of them anyway because we had no involvement with any of them.

But the school saw the bruises, they saw the behaviour changes, they saw all the markers but they didn't recognise them. My parents' friends saw it too. But they didn't recognise it either. Or they liked my parents and didn't want to interfere.

But safeguarding wasn't a thing in the 1980s/early 90s so, other than one set of parents' friends telling me, if I ever needed them, I knew where they were, there was nothing and no one to step in. And, tbh, it was all so 'normal' to me that I wasn't even aware that what was happening wasn't part of everyone's childhood. So I never said anything. Even though I was sad and scared. I wasn't sure when it was 'bad enough' to involve them. Because I was a child.

The problem is that many people had/still have an (unconscious) bias and assume abuse only happens in 'certain types' of family. It doesn't.

It's not about saying, "This child is being abused. Get SS involved and remove them immediately!" It's about having the confidence to say, "I've seen/heard something that isn't sitting right with me and it's playing on my mind. Can someone check this child is OK please?"

Nobody is suggesting lowering the threshold for reporting.

@MsFrost seems to be suggesting both an increase in training and an increase in resources. I have inferred this, perhaps she could confirm.

This is not a true statement. Until I had my son 2 years ago I rarely came in contact with children.

I worked in a defence company, travelled to work by car, I went to the supermarket at 7 at night and socialised is village pubs.

A video on YouTube that the government advertise towards and signposting to support but training is a bit much.

By all means train people in it. But what are you going to do if they watch your video and think "What a load of crap, I'm not doing that". Even if someone does report it, it only goes to social services, which are, by and large, completely hopeless at the best of times.

Are we wlso going to make every adult do a speed awareness course? An alcohol and drug awareness course? A mental health first aid course? Where does it end?

I do much more safeguarding training than you do, including recognised qualifications in it and Indont work with young people. If anything I'd be worrying about your own training before telling other people what to do.

I understand your points. However, the idea is simply to encourage people to have the confidence to raise a concern and teach them how to do so - this is fairly basic knowledge that shouldn't be the reserve of social workers and teachers.

I actually don't agree that the extra unnecessary referrals would be too much to handle if the government invested in services, and some additional properly trained triage workers can sift out a lot of unnecessary referrals.

Like I said, I understand that there would be additional work and a big strain on already stretched services for a while. Some things would be missed in the short term during that chaos - but to me, that is the price of things getting better in the long term. I cannot see a better way to improve things - can you?

If things did get worse, the government would be pressured to to pay attention and realise the need for better investment in services.

At the moment, all these children are flying under the net and the government are getting away without investing because they are simply not noticed and not reported.

It's not OK to let that continue because it's inconvenient not to.

Once they are noticed, then they will have to improve services.

That's a stretch, surely. I don't come into contact with children at all, unless you count passing in the street, and plenty of adults I know don't, either.

I absolutely do count passing in the street.

Utterly pointless.

Plenty of adults do the training and still don't get it or are more inclined to keep their mouths shut if there is an issue to protect their careers because whistleblowing is so difficult.

That's where the issue is.

What a load of nonsense and the fact you even think this is a solution is concerning and demonstrates your naivety.

Should everyone also do a 10 min training session in climate change, diversity etc? There are other hugely important issues the population need ‘training’ on.

Im not saying safeguarding isn’t important, but just because you’ve done a short course doesn’t now mean you’re an expert to be able to lecture everybody else.

As a PP said, most of it is common sense and for the vast majority of people just knowing to report something to the police / SS / speak to the NSPCC is all they need to know, which people do.

I'm a safeguarding lead- I agree a lot of things should have been picked up on my family members before we notice in school.

And all the people who don't work would get it how?

And what was your role in all this? Very easy yo blame others.

Whilst I get the idea behind it and you're clearly passionate about safeguarding, it's just not a practical idea. You could then also argue that every person should have mandatory first aid and resuscitation training, adult safeguarding training as you're likely to come across vulnerable adults too, etc.

That would include equipping every abuser with the tools to abuse more effectively and elude discovery.

All people need to do is tell the child's school/nursery. The OP isn't suggesting that the entire country becomes a DSL blowing up the LA phone lines.

As a teacher, my responsibility is to record anything that concerns me for the DSLs to review. They have had additional training at a higher level and are privy to information about the families that I am not. It is their responsibility to action it as they judge fit. If I'm not happy with that, I can take it further.

It should be common sense. But it isn't. People react in ways even they didn't expect when they become.aware of something untoward.